Thread: Dovo’s honing method

Originally Posted by Bill31521

Someone on another forum measured the thinness difference behind the blade. It was 1/5000th of an inch. About the size of a 10k grit scratch pattern. That doesn't sound like anything meaningful.

Basically what I said almost a year ago now, "I doubt it even happens, considering the there are inconsistencies in the surface of the hone bigger than what he was claiming the improvement to be"

Personally, I don't care how a razor maker hones the final edge so long as my face says it is shave ready. I also don't care if the razor comes with a shave ready certificate from the maker for the same reason. When the consensus in the shaving community says your edges are sub par then they probably are. The only way to fix that is correct the problem at source and supply decent edges. If you can't do that then you'll eventually lose business no matter how you whine on about honing.

Bob

That was me Bill. Another issue with domed hones is how do you get the heel in contact with the hone? The toe too for that matter. I was looking at a video on another forum of a proponent using one of Jarrod’s hones. He was using a flat sliding stroke and the heel came off the hone almost immediately, and the toe never contacted the center of the hone until the last 1” or so of the stroke.

No wonder that it caused frowns, the only part getting honed is the middle. This is the image from post #2 - how can you not make a frown?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am not sure how to answer this as I get the feeling your kidding right ???

Honestly, only kinda. I mean, I think you experts know what the definition is, but I am not sure everyone on the internet does.

The way a razor is discussed it usually seems like in my little picture it would be a convex stone with a concave bevel. And, the way you describe Jarrod's plates, I think you would agree with that, right? But, I have a pair of scissors with a "convex bevel" that seems to be the opposite of that.

Edit: Per Steve's picture I guess I don't even know which way you con____ the hone. I should have just listened to me yesterday and stayed out of this. Sorry.

The most ridiculous part of it all imo is someone saying these guys "know" what theyr doing and we are not smart enough to realize we are wrong. Show me the money! Is what I say. Lead by example then and put a decent edge on. Or say they need honing before use as has been proposed by many as well.

Originally Posted by Steve56

That was me Bill. Another issue with domed hones is how do you get the heel in contact with the hone? The toe too for that matter. I was looking at a video on another forum of a proponent using one of Jarrod’s hones. He was using a flat sliding stroke and the heel came off the hone almost immediately, and the toe never contacted the center of the hone until the last 1” or so of the stroke.

No wonder that it caused frowns, the only part getting honed is the middle. This is the image from post #2 - how can you not make a frown?

You tip the blade as you make the strokes like a rolling x.

Just to clarify

There are two issues being discussed here,,

#1 Dovo and most other Production razors are simply NOT shave ready, nor have they really ever been, in the last few years Dovo has become so bad that they are sending out Frowned razors .. This is unacceptable considering when a new guy sends his razor out to be fixed it voids their warranty.. They also don't see this as out of spec and won't replace the razor if the new guy tries.. I have even gone so far as to give these new guys' the pics of their razors with the frowns to send to Dovo before I fixed them to see if they would replace it..

I made a point of it a few years ago, at that point in time Jarrod took it upon himself to defend Dovo and attack me, using my name to garner hits on his site and YouTube
Basically he was saying "Don't believe your lying eyes" as to what the Dovo Honing vid was showing between the Platen grind and the Convex hone

#2 Jarrod once again doubled down by making his junk science claims about Convex Honing and used my name along with Steve and Marty to garner more hits to sell this idea, Basing it on this statement "The Solingen Masters have been using this technique for years"
I fired back with "If and when those "Masters" can produce a Shave Ready edge and no frowns I MIGHT start to listen" Until then Learn to hone and stop the BS...


Now we all of a sudden have Mysterious German guys hitting the shave fora with the same style of writing and same junk science

As I explained earlier no more nicey nice... I am going to call it as I see it..

Originally Posted by thp001

You tip the blade as you make the strokes like a rolling x.

If it were that simple then why are the "Masters" in Solingen not able to do it ???

Originally Posted by thp001

You tip the blade as you make the strokes like a rolling x.

Yes, that’s true, but you don’t need a convex hone to do that.

They’re honing the cr@p out of the middle of the razor; look at the black swarf on the stone. Most of it is in the middle, that’s where most of the honing is happening, not at the heel or toe or the edges if the hone would be as black as the middle.

I can't say much about Dovo current production standards as they are right now. I have one Dovo I bought a decade ago, it shaved well when I bought it and had no frown issues. There do seem to be more complaints against Dovo recently, I think this warrants some kind of thoughtful conversation/inquiry. It would be nice if Dovo could address this in some form of statement, what they consider shave ready, is a small frown acceptable, etc.

There's obviously some personal animosity between some parties here and in other places. I've always had a pleasant experience here, and I have had some back and forth conversation with the well known Dovo reseller mentioned in this thread, this was also pleasant. But all this is secondary to the objective truth or falsity of various claims made.

As far as the convex hones go I have a few observations:

- Any hone, flat, convex or concave, can either fail or succeed in producing a 'shave ready' edge. People hone edges, not stones.

- It does seem that the convex hone is an old idea and the people in Solingen obviously feel as if there is some utility to it. This apparent utility would remain regardless of whether the edges they produce are shave ready.

- Solingen is capable of producing non-frowned razors on convex hones as evidenced by past razor production.

- By my calculations, the amount of concavity imparted to the edge bevel from a convex hone would appear to be extremely small.