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Thread: Straight Razors Dull Despite Little Use

  1. #61
    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrescentCityRazors View Post
    You will love it, especially for razor honing and inspection. Keep it in a good place, because you will ALWAYS be looking for it for stuff. A Carson MicroBrite is cool sometimes, and a USB microscope is nice for taking pics, but for just LOOKING at stuff your loupe is your friend.
    The variance in optics is insane. We have a $12,000 stereo microscope, it only goes up to 8x I think, it's never used. It got completely replaced by a $1600 dinolite usb scope camera that is superior in basically every way, but still only goes up to about 100x. Meanwhile our metallograph can do 2000x.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    Those high magnification scopes are cool and helpful for seeing very close detail...of a very, very small section of the blade. For theoretical things it is helpful but for practical use in terms of honing or stropping it has limited usefulness, or maybe better put, a scope with a great deal less magnification is more useful for practical use.

    In reality most of us would not gain useful information from imaging with that sort of magnification. The fact is, although it is cool it is not really that necessary for what we do. My dad never used magnification aat all.
    Last edited by PaulFLUS; 02-14-2023 at 09:44 PM.
    Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend. PR 27:17

  3. #63
    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulFLUS View Post
    Those high magnification scopes are cool and helpful for seeing very close detail...of a very, very small section of the blade. For theoretical things it is helpful but for practical use in terms of honing or stropping it has limited usefulness, or maybe better put, a scope with a great deal less magnification is more useful for practical use.

    In reality most of us would not gain useful information from imaging with that sort of magnification. The fact is, although it is cool it is not really that necessary for what we do. My dad never used magnification aat all.
    As far as I know the only thing we use the 2000x for is manually figuring out the carbon content of steel. When we analyze metal for failure analysis we rarely go beyond 30x, and if so usually only up to about 100x.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    That's about what I figured. I bring it up because someone recently brought up the science of sharp. That guy uses images 3.0K X, 10.0K X. It's really cool to look at. The problem with high magnification is the closer you look the smaller the view and therefore decreased usefulness...unless you are going to shave with a section of razor an 1/8 inch long. You can really see.that 1/8 inch (if that) though.
    Last edited by PaulFLUS; 02-15-2023 at 02:14 AM.
    Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend. PR 27:17

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    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    Man this Belomo loupe is nuts. I don't have my chinese 30x loupe for comparison at the moment, but the level of clarity is absurd. Before this point my experience with almost all magnification has been, "it is more magnified but much harder to look at so there's no point," but with this one I can see everything beautifully. I'm just staring at the way light reflects off of the numbers on the inside of my watch.

    Not going to lie I was skeptical that a loupe could look this nice, but it's blowing my socks off at the moment.

    We have a $30,000 stereo microscope at my work that is arguably worse looking.
    Last edited by rickytimothy; 03-16-2023 at 04:01 AM.

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    Senior Member Tathra11's Avatar
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    The Belomo is well worth the coin IMO. I wouldn't be without one for razor honing.
    - Mick.

  7. #67
    Senior Member rickytimothy's Avatar
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    I've been using my straight razor much more frequently lately. Some things I've observed:

    -Unquestionably the razor gets unusably dull about 3/4 through the shave, it will start off quite smooth, but then pull hairs hard at that point.
    -By the very end of the shave, the toe specifically gets so dull that I cannot clean up stray hairs at all, the razor will just glide over them harmlessly.
    -Stropping mid-way through helped a lot.

    Which leads naturally to some questions:

    -Is stropping mid-shave risky? I have heard people say in the past that it risks chipping the razor considering the heat from water, but working in metallurgy this seems ridiculous.
    -Does the dramatic decrease in sharpness throughout one shave sound like more of a sharpening problem, a shaving technique problem, or maybe just the result of coarse hair?

  8. #68
    Home of the Mysterious Symbol CrescentCityRazors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickytimothy View Post
    I've been using my straight razor much more frequently lately. Some things I've observed:

    -Unquestionably the razor gets unusably dull about 3/4 through the shave, it will start off quite smooth, but then pull hairs hard at that point.
    -By the very end of the shave, the toe specifically gets so dull that I cannot clean up stray hairs at all, the razor will just glide over them harmlessly.
    -Stropping mid-way through helped a lot.

    Which leads naturally to some questions:

    -Is stropping mid-shave risky? I have heard people say in the past that it risks chipping the razor considering the heat from water, but working in metallurgy this seems ridiculous.
    -Does the dramatic decrease in sharpness throughout one shave sound like more of a sharpening problem, a shaving technique problem, or maybe just the result of coarse hair?
    It definitely should NOT be dull 3/4 of the way through a shave. Your shave angle might be too high. The edge might have a large fin component. The steel might be crap, though I don't remember what razor you have.

    If your razor is sharp, a good shave angle is where there is a gap equal to one spine thickness, between the spine and the skin. If it were extremely sharp, I would say half that gap would be about right. A very high shave angle isn't shaving. It is scraping. That is hard on the edge, as well as your skin. Make sure you are stretching the skin good.

    No, stropping in mid shave is not risky. However, it should not be needed, either.

    Yes, could be a honing problem. If you are using too much pressure especially at the finish, you might be creating a fin edge. Yes, could be a shaving technique problem. Could also be that you have what is called an RSO, or Razor Shaped Object, that is meant to look good and sell cheap for a high profit margin, but if the razor is made by a respected maker, this is unlikely. Could also be that the temper has been pushed with too much heat during honing or polishing through unskilled use of power tools. However, I looked back and see that you are using a Col. Conk provided to you by an established member here, so I doubt that in your case it is the razor at fault. The Conk is a rebranded Dovo Best, I believe, and the steel is plenty good. I am pretty sure that Paul did a proper job of honing it for you, too. If it is from pushing through a tough beard, then it would have to be REALLY tough. I am leaning toward shave technique or possibly stropping issues. Wasn;t it shaving okay earlier?

    It is not uncommon for an edge to not last very long for a beginner. Normally you should be good for a month to 3 months between honing and a refresh. A newbie can trash an edge in a week or so, worst case scenario.

    What sharpness test will it pass? Sharpness tests are not utterly and faultlessly conclusive, but they do indicate for a new shaver that there might be something wrong with the edge of the razor. Look up HHT, or Hanging Hair Test. It must be done correctly or it doesn't really mean much. Also there is the treetopping test. Sweep the razor over your forearm not touching the skin, passing about 1/4" above the skin. A good edge should lop off the tips of a hair or two in each sweep. If it won't, but it will at only 1/8" then the edge should still shave. If it treetops nearly every hair it encounters at 1/4" then you have a very very good edge indeed. If it does so without any audible feedback and does not even disturb the base of the hair, you have a magic Keebler elf edge and you are lucky to see it once in your life. You could have received a good edge but rolled it with high shave angle and pressure, or bad stropping. You might want to send it out for a refresh.

    If you have tried to hone this yourself, it could well be the edge. Try going back to about the 8k level, fairly light pressure and maybe a touch of slurry, then very light pressure on your 12k stone, clear water or under running water, plenty of laps, don't stop until you have good stiction. Then give it a good strop, see if it will treetop at all, and have a shave with it.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Tathra11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickytimothy View Post
    Some things I've observed:

    -Unquestionably the razor gets unusably dull about 3/4 through the shave, it will start off quite smooth, but then pull hairs hard at that point.
    -By the very end of the shave, the toe specifically gets so dull that I cannot clean up stray hairs at all, the razor will just glide over them harmlessly.
    -Stropping mid-way through helped a lot.
    I think perhaps the problem is quite straight forward. The razor is currently not "shave ready". The edge is falling away during the shave, so the edge ain't right. Of course....... I may be wrong
    outback and PaulFLUS like this.
    - Mick.

  10. #70
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickytimothy View Post
    I've been using my straight razor much more frequently lately. Some things I've observed:

    -Unquestionably the razor gets unusably dull about 3/4 through the shave, it will start off quite smooth, but then pull hairs hard at that point.
    -By the very end of the shave, the toe specifically gets so dull that I cannot clean up stray hairs at all, the razor will just glide over them harmlessly.
    -Stropping mid-way through helped a lot.

    Which leads naturally to some questions:

    -Is stropping mid-shave risky? I have heard people say in the past that it risks chipping the razor considering the heat from water, but working in metallurgy this seems ridiculous.
    -Does the dramatic decrease in sharpness throughout one shave sound like more of a sharpening problem, a shaving technique problem, or maybe just the result of coarse hair?
    It does sound as if you created a foil edge that breaks down during the shave.

    Try this: When you think you have the edge honed to where you want it, breadknife the edge by LIGHTLY drawing it over the edge of the hone you were using. This will remove any foil edge. Then LIGHTLY refinish the edge using 10 weight of the razor strokes on the same stone to restore the shaving edge without a foil. Test the sharpness of the edge and repeat with some more finish strokes if needed.

    You can use this strategy after each stone in the progression.
    PaulFLUS likes this.
    David
    “Shared sorrow is lessened, shared joy is increased”
    ― Spider Robinson, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon

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