Thread: 8000 DMT or Norton 4000/8000?

I'm hesitant to advocate it sometimes because you could remove a lot more metal than you want to pretty easily.

On the other hand, there really is no such thing as overhoning with the DMT's, I mean they don't form a burr the same way the norton does, and it seems like that is one of the main problems new guys have when learning to hone. So one could make the point that there may be more advice circulating for the norton, but with the DMT's you're less likely to run into some of the common problems that would be solved by that advice (overhoning, lapping, when to step up in grit, how many aggressive/conservative pyramids to use, whether backhoning is necessary and, if so, how much, etc).

With the D8EE you just keep making passes until the edge stops getting sharper and then just move on to your polishing stage. (as a matter of fact, the Coticule performs the same way. The D8EE and Coticule get my full support over the norton, hands down.)


p.s. Craig, so you have one of those Jabberwocky-tough beards too, huh. (I should be getting started on the Vorpal blade you designed pretty soon. I can't wait, great design!)

Yes, my whiskers gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I prefer the DMT D8EE over the Norton4k/8k. Either one will work. I like the DMT's cutting speed and "feel" while sharpening.

Mostly a personal preference sort of thing. (I've been carrying a small DMT in my back pocket for over 20 years, so I have a prejudiced opinion )

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Thanks Russel:

I'm really surprised there hasn't been more advocacy from the D8EE owners to recommend that newbies buy ONE STONE (the D8EE) rather than the Norton since a finishing stone is practically necessary after either.

Chris, don't know if you remember back to the Shapton on glass thread I did some experiments with the Norton 8k and a DMT D8EE ... I would definitely class myself as a newbie so I'm in no position to be handing out advocacy but like I said in that thread I do prefer the DMT D8EE over the Norton. Adding a Chromium Oxide strop to it makes for a very quick, no mess setup for most every day situations.

I've managed to wreck a Wapi using the 4K side of my Norton, prior to me getting the DMT D8EE, so like Russel I wonder just how wise an idea it is to recommend to newbies that haven't learnt just how little pressure they should use and the golden rule of less strokes is better.

Barney

Sometimes it's hard to understand how a burr is formed when working both sides equally, one after the other. I mean hard for me

However it seems like the faster a stone (hone) is cutting the more likely it is to produce a bur. Maybe not, you guys have any further thoughts?

I like the diasharps I have and the shaptons, but I've never cared much for Nortons. I'm sure they are ok, but there are several other synthetics I would take over N. Bester, Takenoko, Naniwa....

With a well worn 8000 diasharp I could see it becoming easier over time to mistake one side for the other.

Originally Posted by kevint

Sometimes it's hard to understand how a burr is formed when working both sides equally, one after the other. I mean hard for me

However it seems like the faster a stone (hone) is cutting the more likely it is to produce a bur. Maybe not, you guys have any further thoughts?

I like the diasharps I have and the shaptons, but I've never cared much for Nortons. I'm sure they are ok, but there are several other synthetics I would take over N. Bester, Takenoko, Naniwa....

With a well worn 8000 diasharp I could see it becoming easier over time to mistake one side for the other.

When the edge is so thin that it either bends or starts to fall apart it is called a burr in the knifemaking world and a wire edge in the str8 razor world. There is a slight difference but no reason to quibble.

In the knife world the appearance of a burr indicates it time to move to the next grit. In the str8 razor world that is usually cause for concern, but one of our guys, David Uthe, deliberately overhoned his razors. Once he had that then he moved on to the next grit, just like the knife guys. On his final grit he would go to overhoned and then back hone til the wire edge was gone, then perform a few more laps . It worked for him.

Thanks Randy, I do understand what a burr is, I've been handtooling wood for over 20 years.

When sharpening a knife I seldom feel for a burr, as I figured it'd be cut off when I flip the blade to make a pass on the other side.

Like so many others I watch my wave, there is a lot of information there- so I can sorta tell when a given grit has done its deal.

The burr from an 8000shap is very small on a plane iron, I finish off with a light touch. But still I feel its a heavier touch than used for a razor.

One "expert" steel guy told me one steel can be as sharp as another, only retention suffers. Maybe true from the academic armchair, at some point it becomes a matter of grain size and hardness, the strength of the crystalline structure- so you need good steel to keep from over honing?

Sorry guys I can never stay on topic when your comments give me questions

I'll jump in here: I have a Norton 8k and the DMT 8k plate. The DMT really does cut super fast comparatively, but the finish is a bit rougher than the Norton.

I think it's a moot point as far as finish quality though, since most guys use a finishing stone afterwards anyhow. I say DMT!!

I have only been at straight shaving about 7 months but I still using the DMT 8EE and strop down to 0.25 paste and my total outlay was about $125 if I remember right. I think it is important to get the beginners going with a really sharp razor and an easy way to keep it that way and the 8EE is good for that. I am able to spend very little time honing and using pastes to keep 3 or 4 razors really sharp. Once someone is shaving for a while and wants to branch out then that is great. I am looking for a really nice natural stone but I don't have to be in a hurry. I think the big thing is get guys going with really great shaves and techniques and the rest will take care of itself.


Take Care,
Richard

One of the reasons for focusing on the Norton 4K/8K was to be able to guide new guys and help with problems. I do not doubt that other hones can do a very good job but do we have a sufficient number of people with experience in honing a variety of razors in various conditions that are willing and able to field all the questions from the newb's?

Please do not misunderstand me, I am not saying to stick with the Norton hones. But it seems that if we are going to advocate a specific hone then are we not obligated to provide support for our recommendations?
Do we have enough skilled people for each of the Norton's, DMT's, Shapton's, Belgians, Japanese hones, Spyderco's, etc.?

Food for thought,