Thread: 8000 DMT or Norton 4000/8000?

I understand what your saying Randy and I agree, there's no use handing out recommendations without a little guidance to go along with it.

But if I may elaborate on my earlier point, some hones need less guidance to use and give the same or better results. I feel the D8EE is about as user friendly as a honing surface can be. It does not need to be soaked; does not form a slurry, which is a confusing topic for newbs; never needs lapping, which can be done improperly and create it's own set of questions; does not create a wire edge, which is sometimes hard to diagnose and difficult to avoid sometimes; it's performance does not depend on how many passes you do on the different grits because there is only one, and as soon as the bevel is set, the edge is as polished as it's ever going to be, so your done.

To me it's like having to teach someone to drive an automatic car versus a manual one; both will get you to the same destination but the manual transmission introduces a handful of other factors that aren't necessary for the beginner to worry about. Sure there are benefits to the manual transmission, and a skilled driver can then make the choice to use them as the need arises, but for the learning process they are mostly a hinderence.

I remember stumbling on many of the usual problems with the norton when I was learning to hone with it and enjoyed learning how to do it correctly, but I sure would have had a lot more fun if the D8EE had been around instead.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree that anything that can be done to make honing easier would be a definite plus. The difficulty of honing is one of the main stumbling blocks for a new guy. What now needs to be done is to determine where the DMT8EE fits and where it does not. Since I do not have that hone and will not for some time then it is up to you guys who have it to answer those questions for the new guys.

Personally, I will continue to recommend the Norton 4/8 as a viable tool for honing because I have experience with it and know its limitations.

I gotta go with what I know!

I agree with everything that the pros say here about honing, I ain't one. I guess that is the point. The 8EE is something one would use on a razor that has already been honed by a pro. I have honed out slight chips but mainly it is for resetting a bevel that is 90% there. I learned to use an 8EE in about a half hour and the pasted strop in about an hour. I just want to shave with a really sharp razor and with this setup, and a handful of my wife's hair from her brush, I accomplish this very quickly. I have learned a lot in the 7 months of straight shaving, about shaving, and not as much about honing. You guys that share your knowledge have taught me a tremendous about about honing and just now I am starting down that path but I am getting really good at shaving my face, which is nice!


Thanks guys,
Richard

Originally Posted by randydance062449

What now needs to be done is to determine where the DMT8EE fits and where it does not. Since I do not have that hone and will not for some time then it is up to you guys who have it to answer those questions for the new guys.

When comparing my Norton, DMT, and Spyderco Fine, I would rate them as follows (from most rough to least):
DMT, Norton, Spyderco.

When rating them by cutting speed I would order them thusly (from fastest to slowest): DMT, Spyderco, Norton.

When rating them by initial ease of use and learning curve (from least difficult to most difficult to get a "good" edge) I would order them accordingly: DMT, Norton, Spyderco

When rating them for maintenance and durability I would rate them like so (from most effort to keep hone ready for razor and longevity of surface integrity): Norton, Spyderco, DMT
I rate the norton as worse than the Spyderco since it's surface wears so damn fast, the spyderco second since I feel like I need to lap it every so often to keep it cutting fast, and the DMT as best since it is no maintenance at all.

Now as far as initial surface prep, to get ready for first razor contact, I rate it like this (from best/easiest to worst): DMT, Norton, Spyderco.

I have only seen 2 grits for spyderco, two sizes of hone as well. a pocket size and full size

Fine and ultrafine. I don't know how they measure their grit size, but they are listed as 1000, and 2000. Is this incorrect?

I have the small white one(fine) but have never used it except as a backing for micro-film abrasive.

Originally Posted by kevint

I have only seen 2 grits for spyderco, two sizes of hone as well. a pocket size and full size

Fine and ultrafine. I don't know how they measure their grit size, but they are listed as 1000, and 2000. Is this incorrect?

I have the small white one(fine) but have never used it except as a backing for micro-film abrasive.

They have a medium, fine an ultra fine. What is interesting is that they have changed the grit ratings over the past few years. It used to be that they rated the medium at 800 grit!

No, the DMT8EE 8000 grit is a fast cutting stone that leaves a great edge but is greatly improved by following up with a few light strokes on a coticule. If you look at the edge of the razor under magnification after honing on the D8EE you'll see what I mean. It's not a "wire" and it's not ragged by any means but it's not shave ready either. An inexpensive coticule bout would be sufficient for the finishing strokes.

How about the DMT8EE followed by a TM paddle strop with 3, 1.5 and 0.5 pastes?
Because I know several people who don't care about learning all the intricacies of honing, but just want to shave with a decent edge.

They want automatic vs stick shift.

Over here you won't find anything but stick shift, or you have to look very hard.
And if you learn to drive with an automatic and get your drivers license in one, then you get a different license which doesn't allow you to drive stick.

Yeah, that should work just fine. I'll give it a try and report back, but I don't think there will be any problems.

The edge is very fine coming off of the D8EE, just not smooth. I think the 1 micron diamond paste followed by .5 or CrO would be enough to smooth it out.

Originally Posted by Bruno

How about the DMT8EE followed by a TM paddle strop with 3, 1.5 and 0.5 pastes?
Because I know several people who don't care about learning all the intricacies of honing, but just want to shave with a decent edge.

They want automatic vs stick shift.

Over here you won't find anything but stick shift, or you have to look very hard.
And if you learn to drive with an automatic and get your drivers license in one, then you get a different license which doesn't allow you to drive stick.

I like working the edge off the DMT on a finishing hone, BUT...going to the Chrome OX right off the DMT 8k works great. It just take more passes. No sweat!