Thread: 8000 DMT or Norton 4000/8000?

Originally Posted by Bruno

How about the DMT8EE followed by a TM paddle strop with 3, 1.5 and 0.5 pastes?
Because I know several people who don't care about learning all the intricacies of honing, but just want to shave with a decent edge.

They want automatic vs stick shift.

Over here you won't find anything but stick shift, or you have to look very hard.
And if you learn to drive with an automatic and get your drivers license in one, then you get a different license which doesn't allow you to drive stick.

That combination produces a very sharp edge but it is for me very rough. Using this other remains very sharp edge and very very smooth in the face.

5 or 10 strokes in D8EE
10 or 20 strokes in coticule
5 strokes in diamond paste 1 micron
10 strokes in diamon paste 0.5 micron
20 strokes in Chromiun oxide 0.5

if the straight only needs a slight touch only coticule followed by pastes or only pastes

Dioni

Originally Posted by joke1176

I like working the edge off the DMT on a finishing hone, BUT...going to the Chrome OX right off the DMT 8k works great. It just take more passes. No sweat!

I'm one of the noobs who got the DMT 8EE and just have a pasted balsa Chrome Ox strop right now and I can definitely weigh in from a newbie perspective. The DMT was really easy to learn to use and no lapping so that's a plus. As far as the DMT 8EE straight to .5 Chrome Ox I can say that I can't get a good edge yet. Shaveable but not comfortable. I'm thinking you really need a 1 micron stage between the two as I've spent hours and hours on several razors this way testing and retesting and can't quite get there with just these 2 things. Currently I'm honing on the DMT until it almost can pass HHT but not quite (because I can't get it any sharper) and then about 20 passes on the .5 Chrome Ox but like I said, I think I need some 1 micron work between that.

Joke1176, how many Chrome Ox passes do you need to make after the DMT? Maybe that's my problem.

Originally Posted by backpackerx

Currently I'm honing on the DMT until it almost can pass HHT but not quite (because I can't get it any sharper) and then about 20 passes on the .5 Chrome Ox

I do something similar but I've found the DMT quite easy to get and edge to pass the HHT. I started with a Norton 4K/8K and was never able to get a razor to pass the HHT straight off the 8K, I had to at least strop on plain leather to get it to pass the HHT. I'm still a noob, having only 3 razors that I've taken from factory grind to my version of shave ready, but I found that my razors wouldn't pass the HHT as I was putting too much pressure on the blade - as Lynn says a few light strokes is best.

Barney

I like to use the DMT D8EE followed by a barber hone. Depending on the razor, I may finish up on some newspaper.

When people say the finish on newspaper how is that done? Is it laid over something or flat or what?

p

Originally Posted by backpackerx

When people say the finish on newspaper how is that done? Is it laid over something or flat or what?

Yes, placed on anything flat is the usual method. Strop it like leather.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

When the edge is so thin that it either bends or starts to fall apart it is called a burr in the knifemaking world and a wire edge in the str8 razor world. There is a slight difference but no reason to quibble.

A fine explanation, to which I'd like to elaborate.

The Nortons hone with fresh and sharp particles that are constantly being renewed every time a razor passes over the surface. When the edge becomes extremely thin (and sharp), the risk arises that those particles know parts of the edge away, leaving the a sort of microscopical equivalent of barb wire.

With a DMT, diamond crystals are solidly embedded in the hone's surface. When the edge becomes equally thin as the crystals protrude the surface, it just creates a new straight edge with each honing stroke, provided that you don't exert so much pressure that the edge bends over and partially breaks off. Hence, a DMT maxes out at a given level of sharpness.

A coticule, that also hones with loose particles, rounds the edge at a certain level, due to the shape af the honing garnets (round with sharp segments) It kind of dulls the edge before it can create the barb wire structure.

Just my theory why it's possible to overhone on a Norton, and not on DMT's or coticules.

As far as I can tell, based on the vast amount of information I've read about it on this forum, the Norton4/8K is a real pro's tool. It's not easy to master: there's the overhoning issue, it demands an experienced and even stroke, it requires regular maintenance. BUT, is properly mastered it leads to premium sharp cutting bevel, than can be used to shave, or to refine further on any of the finishing hones (Coticules, Eshers, Thuringians, Shapton 16Kand/or 30K, Nakayamas, etc) It is, so to speak, the "Straight Razor of hones".

The "Double Edge Razor of hones" would definitely be the DMT- D-series (from the D6E to the D6EE, or D8E to D8EE). They are more fool proof than the Nortons: no lapping or deglazing, no overhoning, so pre-soaking. They even seem to be more forgiving to some newbie unevenness in the honing stroke.

For those who like the "Flint Razor of hones", they get get by with just one hone: the coticule. It's natural, and if you pick the right one, it can be absolutely minimalistic. I have one in my small collection that easily outperforms a DMT1200 speedwise, and still creates a decent shaveready edge, but it requires feel, knowledge and experience to get there. (Most members of SRP only use it as a finisher after the Norton or the DMT.)

In the end it comes down to character and personal preference. What type of guy are you? Answering that question tells more about what hone will give you the most satisfaction. Unless you're a HAD-type of person, in which case you like 'em all.

Best regards,

Bart.

I'd just like to thank all who have contributed to this thread. My honing experience is next to zero, but I want to start "driving"--automatic or manual, it doesn't matter. And so I've decided to go with the 8K DMT. I have a Belgian stone, and a four sided pasted strop. Once I get the DMT I think I'll be good to go for a while.

A couple questions: There's a SRP wiki article about DMT-E, Belgian combo (BBW and coticule), but I should get the DMT-EE right? Also, what size? I'd rather go with the less expensive (smaller 6x2 size) but do you fellas think the larger 8" is far better?

My goals are to be able to set bevels and then polish. Also, if possible, I'd like to make shave ready any antique razors I might find--given that the blade isn't too far gone.

The word is that you will need to add a finer stone after the D8EE because it leaves rough edges. I'd go for a Yellow Coticule (is that the belgian stone you already have?) and/or a C12k + slurry (because it's slooooow).

If you're beginning, I think it'd be better to stick to the 8x3 because it provides more stability. But the 6x2 will give the same results for less money... but you'll have to take your time.

I do have a Belgian yellow coticule.

And as it seems, Dia-Sharp doesn't make a DMT EE in 6x2 as far as I could search.

Thanks for the feedback!