Thread: Options to improve keenness

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Why were on the subject it is said that the coticule with water only poilshes and is agreat finisher. So if i was to touch a razor up with coti water would that improve enough to have a keen edge.? my thinking is i have shaved of coti with slurry only and it shaves only just 100 laps on water and there is an improvemant quite a big one or using diluting method even better so the coti with water must sharpen a little ? is that right or not ?

In my experience, it largely depends on the particular specimen. Many Coticules are incredibly slow when use with water only. After they have eroded the peaks of the given scratch pattern, they have hardly any abrasive power to remove the steel required for further keenification. Other Coticules have more abrasive power, even when used with only water. Raising the slightiest hint of slurry on the former ones can make a big difference. Also, small variations in applied presure on the blade, can make a lot of difference. There is no subsitute for getting acquainted with the tool at hand.
The "unicot" method (the one that uses the secondary bevel) takes a shortcut around most of these differences, because the narrow secondary will respond well to low pressure laps on water, even on the slowest of Coticules.
I you don't like to use the secondary bevel shortcut, for whatever reason, than you need to figure out how your Coticule cuts best (something you obviously have done already). I have not been calling them "adventurous" hones for nothing.

Kind regards Gary,

Bart.

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

Is there a hone that could be used between the BBW and coticuleor after the coticule that could help? Or any techique advice with BBW and coticule?



Thanks
-Chief

this is quote from your original post? Am i missing something?

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

Relatively new to honing, I've rehoned my 3 razors, and sucessfully did a full bevel reset on a practice DA. I'm using BBW and Coticule. My progression is: Coticule + slurry to tune up the bevel, BBW + slurry, then coticule + water (per the wiki). My honing strokes are coming along, I can get the edge in nice condition per my magnifier. My benchmark is will the razor shave arm hair if held a bit above the skin. I can get to this benchmark if I use tape at the last coticlue+water stage which sets a secondary bevel. Without setting the secondary bevel, it is just shy of where I want the keeness to be (it will catch a few hairs this way. Will still shave ok, but more resistance on ATG than I want).

I'm wondering if there are other options to improve keeness aside from inducing a secondary bevel. I want to keep the BBW/Coticle as the primary honing tools, and I don't want to use paste. Is there a hone that could be used between the BBW and coticule or after the coticule that could help? Or any techique advice with BBW and coticule?

Note, my full hollow turned out real nice without the secondary bevel, but my 1/2 and 1/4 hollows are not quite there.

Thanks
-Chief

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

I'm not interested in comparing the edge I can get with BBW/Coticle with other hones, etc-- I'm interested in getting the maximum edge possible with these hones.

-Chief

??? this is your last response

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

this is quote from your original post? Am i missing something?

I'm sorry, I should clarify that-- I would look at another hone to be used in conjunction with BBW and Coticule, but not to replace them. I thought your post was talking about using an entirely different honing sytem. I apologize if I mis-interpreted your post!

Thanks,
-Chief

I did find that with my small kosher i took it to a dull razor with water only and i could feel the edge forming and i actualy said to my self this seems to be bringing edge back but i stopped and used another hone i wanted to try.

have you thought a bout gettig a 4knorton or maybe 5k naniwa to use before then bbwcoti i'm sure that would work. it has for me if you watch heavy dutys honing progression he goes 4k 8k bbw slurry yellow water. I 've done this many times and it realy works well infact it never failed yet

Well, I'm happy to report I hit my benchmark keenness with a single bevel, and using just the coticule to boot! This razor is pretty beefy-- it is a Livi regrind, 1/2 hollow. Despite good results on my full hollow using coti+slurry, BBW+slurry, coti+water, I was not able to get the Livi where I wanted it.

It took me awhile-- but I think I've figured out where I've been going south.

Bart, I followed your thinning schedule using the coticule only (no BBW), but I found that when I got past 20 laps, the slurry was thickening... and I was waiting too long before adding some water-- so I'd end up thinning the slurry, then it would thicken as I honed, then I would thin it out again. This didn't work... razor would not pop arm hair when held 1/4 above the skin (my keenness benchmark).

I stepped back to a thinner slurry, and would add a drop occasionally during the thinning schedule to try to keep the thickness constant (say I was at 40 laps before the next thinning-- I would add about 1 drop every 10 laps, until I got to 40, then I would thin by adding 2-3 drops, and start over). I got to where I thought the slurry was pretty thinned out, then switched to coticule+water only. Still no dice... it was sharper, I got a decent shave with it, but still didn't pass my keenness benchmark.

Third time around-- started with a medium slurry, added 2 drops of water every 10 laps. Every now and then I'd throw in an additional drop or two to keep the slurry well hydrated. Got to where I thought the slurry was pretty thinned out (and where I stopped last time), but this time I decided to JUST KEEP GOING. I must have added an additional 200 strokes, thinning and thinning and thinning every 10. Rinsed, then did 100 with just coticule + water, and BAM! Got it!

I'm real excited about this-- I started out this thread thinking I needed to add another hone on top of the BBW and Coti, now I'm down to 1 rock. I'm sure I ended up doing way more strokes than necessary, but now I know I can get to where I want to be.

Thanks for the tips!

-Chief

Great work, Chief.

Dilucot is something every one (willing to take the scenery route) has to figure out on his own. I am so happy you crossed that bridge. It's really like playing a musical instrument. There's no substitute for practice, and one day you ask yourself what you found so difficult about it in the beginning.

Congrats,

Bart.

i've dulled a couple of razors today and honed them right up with slurry and diluting method and perfect i have got my self a 8x3 select kosher ariving to morrow i will try it out. So my slurry does'nt run out or start to get thick i hone well before the end of hone that way you keep your slurry on the surface and not pushing it of the hone as much.I also find you have to get it right before you move on making sure the bevel is good and your thumb grips it nicley if it does that all the way along the egde thats when start my diluting method and then the sharpening realy begins at the end of honing i take a chest hair and if it just passes i no once stropped my razor will pop hht very easily and then for real keenes i do 10 laps chr.5 optional then my edge mows hair down shave may not last as long but i just touch up on coticule and its fine. I've tryed dry finishing on one razor today seemed to work as well passed hht easier straight of hone i tested hht wet coti then 15 laps dry and hht was better.

i have got my self a 8x3 select kosher ariving to morrow

OK, that does it! The split second I get a new job, I'm searching around for one of these things! This sounds like too much fun not to try!