A simple rant

**kevint** · 10-20-2009, 01:27 AM

Bob that's why it's said: dmt is "flat enough"
they are not dead on.

I just don't see how one can get a stone flat as it can be w/o resting one firmly and rubbing the other over it. certainly helps me.

All you said in your op sounded normal except that part about 1000 being only for a really dull blade.

It's needed to correct all that was done wrong before. If you've been trying and retrying on the fine end of the scale I suggest as almost always. Use bart's glass or a couple joints over the finish stone and set a shaving 1k bevel

best of luck

**Joed** · 10-20-2009, 01:41 AM

After you get your homes flat try what I suggested to Floorpizza in this thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...me-help-2.html

Good luck!

**wedwards** · 10-20-2009, 12:15 PM

I can definately understand. Four things helped me;

1. A vid of Lynn at a meet that showed testing a razor on arm hair. The tests have to be done all along the razors edge to ensure consistency.

2. Do NOT move up from the 1K until you can cut arm hair after setting the bevel. Each time you move up a grit level, you MUST see VERY noticeable improvement. After you are done on 8K, you should be able to slice through arm hair approx 2 - 3mm above the skin.

3. Do not aim to achieve what Lynn or others who have years and years of proficiency are able to do - you will just become discouraged. Aim to finish a razor with a good edge that shaves well. In time and with a lot of practice, it might be possible to replicate what the pros do. You will get a good appreciation for the level of skill and finesse that these guys have.

4. Contrary to others' good advice, I actually hold the hone in my non-dominant hand. By holding both the hone and razor, I can hold it right up to my face and see exactly what is going on. Having the hone sitting on the benchtop, made it very difficult for me to do this. Try this with a junk razor first - it takes a bit of concentration/co-ordination at first.

One other vid that is a bit bizarre but gave me the idea that the classic x-pattern pyramid honing is simply one of maybe a myriad of ways to get the job done, was this;

YouTube - Honing a razor

**zepplin** · 10-20-2009, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by wedwards

I can definately understand. Four things helped me;

1. A vid of Lynn at a meet that showed testing a razor on arm hair. The tests have to be done all along the razors edge to ensure consistency.

2. Do NOT move up from the 1K until you can cut arm hair after setting the bevel. Each time you move up a grit level, you MUST see VERY noticeable improvement. After you are done on 8K, you should be able to slice through arm hair approx 2 - 3mm above the skin.

3. Do not aim to achieve what Lynn or others who have years and years of proficiency are able to do - you will just become discouraged. Aim to finish a razor with a good edge that shaves well. In time and with a lot of practice, it might be possible to replicate what the pros do. You will get a good appreciation for the level of skill and finesse that these guys have.

4. Contrary to others' good advice, I actually hold the hone in my non-dominant hand. By holding both the hone and razor, I can hold it right up to my face and see exactly what is going on. Having the hone sitting on the benchtop, made it very difficult for me to do this. Try this with a junk razor first - it takes a bit of concentration/co-ordination at first.

One other vid that is a bit bizarre but gave me the idea that the classic x-pattern pyramid honing is simply one of maybe a myriad of ways to get the job done, was this;

YouTube - Honing a razor

Its not in english, but that is not important. I found that this style of stroke when setting the bevel on a junk razor, really gave me a good feel for how the hones cut, and how the razor feels when its sitting on the hone correctly. Each time I go up a grit, I use this for a few strokes initially, and then do the rolling X - its seriously unconventional in the sense of what is commonly accepted, but it works for me and seems to give me a better quality finish. The point being - you need to find what works for you, and that might be very different to what works for others.

Anyway, they are some of the things that worked for me - hope this might be of some help to you.

**wedwards** · 10-20-2009, 01:42 PM

Yeah I know what you mean. I saw Mastro Livi doing a similar stroke (was back and forth, rather than a circular type of stroke), and he didnt do the same number of strokes on both sides. This kind of tells me that 19 strokes on one side and 20 on the other is probably not going to make a world of difference, however I havent tested that, and purists will no doubt have evidence to the contrary.

**zib** · 10-20-2009, 01:45 PM

Bob, I guess I'm going to re check my Naniwa's. Glen's right. The pencil lines do come off pretty quickly. That's cause these stones are soooo soft. I was shaprening my Henckels Kitchen Knives, and I cut right into the stone. How crazy is that....I think them being sooo soft has a lot to do with gettting them Lapped correctly as Glen said. Also, Those Swaty's are what forced me to buy the D8XX Chesse Grater Hone....I remember when I restored my first Swaty, I couldn't believe how hard they were. I was trying to get out chips, and it took hours and hours....I got a good workout though....nice pump....

**keenedge** · 10-20-2009, 01:47 PM

The video is of JimR's barber. He posted and translated in this thread.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ing-video.html

**mainaman** · 10-20-2009, 02:15 PM

Ok my 2 cents.
I did not catch if you use the 220 for bevel setting, but if you do the 220 is too coarse for bevel setting.
1k will remove the scratches left from the 220 after very long time of boring honing.
In my humble opinion you need a stone between 220 and 1k to fix the damage made by the 220, say 500-700 range. Better yer, use that stone to set your bevels if the 1k is too slow, but 1k should be the main bevel setter.
As far as lapping 220 dmt would be too rough on the 2k= stones and will leave the surface of the stone with trenches which will then affect the smoothness of the bevel. I think you can go with the 220 for lapping but then you need to go over that with say 1.2k DMT to smothen the surface. I am even considering getting a 6k synthetic Nagura for my polishing stones.

**gssixgun** · 10-20-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by wedwards

Yeah I know what you mean. I saw Mastro Livi doing a similar stroke (was back and forth, rather than a circular type of stroke), and he didnt do the same number of strokes on both sides. This kind of tells me that 19 strokes on one side and 20 on the other is probably not going to make a world of difference, however I havent tested that, and purists will no doubt have evidence to the contrary.

This is most often called Japanese style honing, it is quite common in restoration... To bad some of the Restoration honing that was done by myself and Joe Chandler did not make it on the NC meet video, you would have seen much more of this type of stuff....

Lynn's 40 circle to sharp method is one that really, really, works well for corrective honing and also for newer honers...

**Pete_S** · 10-20-2009, 03:13 PM

Well, first off, I wouldn't get too discouraged, getting the first razor sharp is really hard, no matter how many wunderkind posts you see.

Second, I wouldn't go lower then the 1k for the time being. Use the marker test to make sure you're getting even contact. Keep to the 1k till you're pretty sure the edge has all the 220 scratches killed.

Third, from my understanding, the Nawinas use the JIS system. According to the chart that dude made, that means that the grit from the 1k to the 5k is something like 900 to 6k-7k in Norton terms ( the JIS grits are actually more coarse on the lower end of the scale). That means you'll want to spend alot of time on your 5k after a jump like that.

Id just keep with the marker tests, and pick a razor that you're getting even coverage with when you hone. Don't mess with smiles or warped blades yet, you can get them later.

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