Thread: A simple rant

Just saw another thread where some other newbie got a razor shave ready starting from ground zero using Norton 4K/8K. A 1K and Chinese 12K were also in the mix.

In one sense it is encouraging and in another discouraging. I am encouraged that if someone else can do it so can I and discouraged that I really can't do it yet!

I have five Naniwas:

220
1K
5K
8K
12K

I figured the 5K and 8K would be the equivalent of the Norton 4K/8K. The 12K would be a good extra for finishing and the 1K could be used to set the bevel on a really dull blade. (The 220 was a freebie as it was sent to me by mistake.)

All hones have been lapped twice (using pencil lines) with a DMT8C. It was a bit disconcerting that the second lapping took just about as long to remove the pencil lines as the first lapping. Didn't the first lapping do *any* good? Did the second one?

Well, none of this is working out for me. Seems the more I hone the duller and rougher the blade gets! A 100X microscope makes it look like the coast of some rocky island during a storm. I try my best to hold the blades flat, with as little pressure as possible. I use plenty of water. Nothing seems to do any good!

I have since read that the Naniwa 3K/5K are closer equivalents to the Norton 4K/8K than my 5K/8K. Perhaps I really need that 3K but I already have five of these things!

Arrrgh!

(rant over)

I do have one razor out for re-honing and an examination to see if the error(s) of my way can be identified.

Hey Bob, Is it one razor that your having trouble with or is this with all your razors. The hones you have are more than adequate. I use them. I just took an old Puma from junk to shave ready using my Naniwa's. Once they're lapped, they're lapped. I think they're great, A little soft, but good....If you draw lines, It's still going to take time to remove them. Did you check the hone with a straight edge? Get a metal ruler, place it diaganolly across the hone holding it up to the light, If you don't see the light, your alright....At least that's what I do. I can't imagine your hones dished that quickly.
I'm thinking, if it's one razor, your bevel needs to be re set, it's probably one of those problem blades that takes like a half an hour to set a bevel....Let me know if I can help....Don't give up on the Naniwa's yet, I don't the 3k would make that great a difference. I think your OK with what you have..Either 1k to 5k, or 3k to 8k....You could add the 3k into the mix, but I really don't think you have too....

Rich

Rich,

I have a few razors giving me trouble. I was able to make some progress but the results have not been great when compared to what comes back from the well known honemeisters that are active here and also from Martin at RasurPur. (That Le Grelot 3/4 grind is awesome!) I was actually able to shave with a couple I worked on but the experience was not pleasant. My standards are higher! Spoiled by the pros!

My concern over the honing was not clear. I would expect it to take a while to remove the lines a second time. What I didn't expect was that they came off just as unevenly as the first time -- some areas almost immediately, others seemed to take forever, several hundred laps. But now that I think about it this might be due to uneven pressure while putting down the lines. I really didn't think much about that as I was drawing them.

It seems that the Naniwas cut pretty slowly. Spend the time at the 1k until you the blade is sharp. The 5k will refine it a bit, but won't be taking off *that* much metal. Get a good bevel set with the 1k first.
J.

Naniwa SS' are getting a rep about Lapping, it takes some time, here is what I have done and it works, lap, lap, lap, hone, lap, hone, lap, and they are ready... the problem with the pencil lines and the DMT is the heavy amount of swarf that comes off the Naniwa SS' erases the line more than the lapping... Lap them under water, unless you are using a Shapton GDLP then use running water...
You have plenty of stones there the 3k would be nice but it is not needed especially for what you are doing Bob which is mostly re-hones on shaving razors...
Your Boker is going for a shave in about 1 hour then to the hones after that, I will know much, much more after dinner tonight...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Naniwa SS' are getting a rep about Lapping, it takes some time, here is what I have done and it works, lap, lap, lap, hone, lap, hone, lap, and they are ready... the problem with the pencil lines and the DMT is the heavy amount of swarf that comes off the Naniwa SS' erases the line more than the lapping... Lap them under water, unless you are using a Shapton GDLP then use running water...
You have plenty of stones there the 3k would be nice but it is not needed especially for what you are doing Bob which is mostly re-hones on shaving razors...
Your Boker is going for a shave in about 1 hour then to the hones after that, I will know much, much more after dinner tonight...

Thanks.

My last lapping was under water in the kitchen sink.

Could you describe your whole process and what type strokes you're using?

I'm new to honing myself and if it's any help, I found things much easier once I started using a marker test to check out how even the edge was, and then a rolling x-stroke to sharpen. I don't move away from the 1k until I'm happy with my bevel.

I also watched the honing video of Lynn from this year's SRP get together.

EDIT: Here's a thread with the videos I was talking about:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ng-videos.html

Thanks for this, Bob. I'm getting the hang of 220/1K and 4K/8K Nortons. I know this, it ain't as easy as it looks!

Originally Posted by zib

Get a metal ruler, place it diaganolly across the hone holding it up to the light, If you don't see the light, your alright....At least that's what I do.

Well, I can see light. I can even slip a piece of paper through the point of most light. This is extra thin paper used in a Day-Timer planner with pages very thin in order to fit a year's worth of planning pages in a skinny little booklet. Other paper from a normal notepad wouldn't go through.

The DMT8C also shows light! When I first got the DMT I might have ruined it by lapping a Swaty. Those suckers are hard. I didn't know any better.

I started a thread asking about this (http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...w-dmt-d8c.html) and the consensus was I didn't hurt it but I still wonder.

Here is a picture:


I was able to clean it up a bit, but the center is quite a bit shiner than the edges at the ends. Although there is a bright spot due to the lightinng, the general shininess of the middle portion compared to the edges at the ends is real.

Originally Posted by commiecat

Could you describe your whole process and what type strokes you're using?

I'm new to honing myself and if it's any help, I found things much easier once I started using a marker test to check out how even the edge was, and then a rolling x-stroke to sharpen. I don't move away from the 1k until I'm happy with my bevel.

I also watched the honing video of Lynn from this year's SRP get together.

EDIT: Here's a thread with the videos I was talking about:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ng-videos.html

Well I used a variety of processes but the one I started with and the one I think is right is X-pattern, plenty of water, with as light a touch as reasonable. I tried both pyramid and progression. I started with the higher grits only then started over beginning with coarser grits when things weren't working out. At one point I even dulled an edge by slicing a stroke or two against the side of the 220. I was able to get this to a shaveable condition but not something I would use day-to-day.