Thread: Why Pyramid?

Originally Posted by xman

So here's what happened first:

I had shaved with my Böker last on Sun Day you might recall if you read the SOTD thread. It was beginning to dull before that and so I took it to a small pyramid followed by conservative use of the 12,000 Sharpton stone, then liberal use of the 0.5 micron chromium oxide stick and conservative use of the 0.25 Diamond Paste. The resultant shave was a bit scratchy.

This morning I stropped and the razor ever so slightly reluctantly poped one of my hairs, the very fine ones I have on my head.

Then it was 100 gentle trips along the 12,000 hone, strop and hang the hair again. This time it popped without restraint and the resultant shave was less scratchy.

I will only be shaving with this razor this week (and maybe next) and running 100 laps on the 12k each time before I do. I'll keep posting.

Did you look under a microscope? Scratchiness suggests a slight wire edge or a micro chip. I've never used a Shapton. To me, the 100 laps seems like a lot. But if the 100 is necessary, what would it take with the .5, which is like 50K or the .25, which is 100K?

So I did another 100 laps on the Honemaster and came up with the same result, a scratchy shave. I do not use a microscope, so I can't coroborate my observations with visual data, but I accept how you describe what I'm experiencing as a wire edge.

Given that the striations are pretty much all smoothed down now, I imagine, Joe that you would say that all I need now is to go for afew laps on the 8000 and I'll be set to go, with only a few pasted laps on the 0.5 micron stick. Would that be correct? Also, what do you think would happen if I took this razor to the 0.5 pasted paddle without goin to the 8000 Norton?

X

Originally Posted by xman

Given that the striations are pretty much all smoothed down now, I imagine, Joe that you would say that all I need now is to go for afew laps on the 8000 and I'll be set to go, with only a few pasted laps on the 0.5 micron stick. Would that be correct? Also, what do you think would happen if I took this razor to the 0.5 pasted paddle without goin to the 8000 Norton?

SInce you don't use a microscope I guess you didn't see the 4K striations, so you're not going to see 8K ones, which are twice as close together.

If you do have a slight wire edge, what you need the most is to back hone a few laps on the 8K. Then do normal honing until the edge passes a sharpness test or until you see you're getting no further improvement in sharpness, then go to the .5K and see if you can improve the sharpness. Don't worry too much. At that point you're not going to get a wire edge very quickly with .5 micron. If you skip the 8K you can get to the same place, but it'll take a lot more work. You're working with 50K instead of 8K.

Before you leave the 4K I would do a thumbnail test to see if you feel any bumps or the scratchiness associated with a wire edge. If you do, work on the 4K until they're gone. At that point, if the edge sharpness deteriorates when you go to the 8K you could very well have an oxidized edge.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

SInce you don't use a microscope I guess you didn't see the 4K striations, so you're not going to see 8K ones, which are twice as close together.

I can see the 4k striations with my naked eye if I look for glare. The light has to be just right and I have to wear my glasses, but they do show up. I can see almost anything which I would be able to detect with the thumbnail test. I admit that I don't like the thumbnail test, but I did it and it ran smooth across my wet thumbnail like a blade on ice, smoooooth. As I look down the edge I detect only a few deep striations well back from the edge which is otherwise very smooth.

So I'm off to see what the 8000 says. TY VM BTW.

X

Alright. I did just as you recommend, Joe and the razor might be perfect.
The thumbnail test provides a smooth glide.
The thumb test produces a gentle tickle with no biting.
The hanging hair test seems slightly reluctant sometimes like it's waiting for the right angle, but when it does pop hairs it does so silently. So do the ones I just got back from, Lynn.
We'll see what the shave says. I won't get to it till tomorrow.

X

I continue to find all this quite interesting. I have had many razors ready to go after coming off the 8K side of the Norton. I have had many more razors actually loose an edge from either diamond paste or red and green pastes. Hair tests, thumb nail tests, microscopes are fine but the final and most informative test remains the shave. Lot's of good stuff here guys. Lynn

I must agree with Lynn on this. It is the shave that matters. I have had razors that worked great from a hone and some that didn't. I have had a few sharpened by various "masters" some shaved great some didn't. Some needed a touchup on pastes and some simply needed to go back on the hone. I have had fairly dull razors respond well on nothing but pastes and those that even a hone seemed incapable of helping.

The pyramid, the stropping suggestions, the stone and hone advice, the grit size debates are all excellent to give guys a baseline on whixh to start but learning to adjust to each specific razor is needed. One method, one tool, one idea is not going to work for everything.

Tony

With the exception of patience . . . that has always worked well for me with honing.

Originally Posted by xman

Alright. I did just as you recommend, Joe and the razor might be perfect.
The thumbnail test provides a smooth glide.
The thumb test produces a gentle tickle with no biting.
The hanging hair test seems slightly reluctant sometimes like it's waiting for the right angle, but when it does pop hairs it does so silently. So do the ones I just got back from, Lynn.
We'll see what the shave says. I won't get to it till tomorrow.

X

That's great. Good luck. From you r description of the thumbtest, it sounds like it's jus t short of ready. When it really there the edge really grabs the thumb, it that's what you mean by "bite." As you repeat the thumb test you find that you can begin to feel the edge at a point, and then it starts feeling thinner. I know I'm there when I just graze the edge lightly and it grabs. The blade even moves sideways a little. The edge then feels extremely thin and your thumb makes the blade ring very softly.

Well after last I posted I went for a few light trips on the 0.5 and 0.25, 20 and 10 light laps respectively and I was still experiencing rash, so I went back to the 8000 for about 12 laps and still got a rash today and saw more blood than I'm used to. The whole while I was getting a good sensation from the thumb test and a light response on the hanging hair test. So here's my conclusion so far. Althought the 8000 can improve an oversharp or wire edge, it's better in combination with the 4000. Why that might be is up for debate. I guess I'm deferring to my previous position that we want a deep complex edge A''^''^''A''^''^''A. Since I've had it with razor rash for a while, like THE REST OF MY LIFE, I'm going to prove it and do a medium pyramid up to 5/5 and down to finish with a few 1/3. I hope to have a comfortable shave with this razor soon.

X