Thread: Why Pyramid?

coarser stones leave a coarser edge. This makes an edge slice better and because it's got larger teeth, it takes longer to wear them away while working, so the edge is more durable. It's not the recommended edge for razors, though.

Here are some very good images of a commercial razor blades clearly showing the scratch patterns and micro-bevel geometry along with some interesting comments.

Razor Blade Edge Photos

Robert,
Great link!

As I was reading the text I found this quote:

<<I recently bought a new knife made by "J.A.Henckels" which was labelled "German Stainless Steel" and "MADE IN CHINA". >>

Henckels....China??

What is the world coming too

Tony

Originally Posted by PapaBull

It's not the recommended edge for razors, though.

Yea, its an aggressive cutter but for everyday use I think it needs to get tamed with some smoothing. Eventually you end up at nearly the same spot everyone else does . . . but with a much better understanding of honing. I also find this edge seems to shave with a little buffer of whisker, i.e. its not as close as a hypersharp edge. Its fast and easy to shave with (3 min this morning) but leaves a very microscopic light stubble (but lots of cream too). I think the best edge for me will be a balance between good cutting and a sharp comfortable edge. I can't hone better than a machine blade, so I'm stuck with what I can accomplish.

I'm going to try a 12000 soon though. So much fun :-)

I'm pretty sure you'll have a new perspective again once you've got some experience with the 12000 or better grit hones. I don't think anyone can ever know it all about anything. Even something as "simple" as honing. I've been at it for 30 years and still learn new things.

Thanx for that link too, Robert. I got one on its way!

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Its fast and easy to shave with (3 min this morning) but leaves a very microscopic light stubble

Yeah, I didn't notice it at first, but by the end of the day I actually had a little stubble. I do still suspect I've been over focussed on the higher grits in the past and will be careful not to overdo that for a while.

X

The best purpose for all this is understanding the cutting characteristics of the blade and developing a better understanding in where you should be starting your progression up the grit ladder. From here the razor is always shaving, your just smoothing it out. I always keep a razor honed like this around for days with extra growth or when I'm in a hurry, a 3 min straight shave is convienent.

Originally Posted by PapaBull

The main thing is to do whatever works. I don't use the pyramid method at all and prefer the smallest, tightest, scratch patterns and, therefore, micro-serrations I can possibly get. Every razor has microserrations; it's just a matter of how fine they are. There's little point in using a steel with a super-fine granular structure if we actually want teeth on the blade and yet, the cryogenically treated steels tend to give superior edges and one of the characteristics of these steels treated cryogenically is the very fine and even distribution of carbides.

Japanse Feather blades are the sharpest things I'm aware of mankind ever making and I think they're outstanding double edge blades because of it. They shave effortlessly and the straight razors I like to shave with best shave almost as effortlessly and cleanly. I'll admit I don't get them that sharp, but I get them pretty close and that's always my goal. If my blade has to have teeth on it, I want them to be as small and fine as they can possibly be. At least that's how I feel about it now. Tomrrow... who knows.

That's the only thing that makes sense theoretically, from history and from many years of barber science. I assure you that Lynn doesn't finish his razors with a coticule to leave 4K striations on it.

They guys that are finding improvement in using the pyramid are not finding it because they're leaving a rough edge. There is some explanation, but that's not it. The rough edge will last longer, but it won't shave better unless you're using a sliding/slicing motion like you do with a bread knife. The slight slice we use when we shave is not the same thing.

The shave is the ultimate test, but I find these pyramid results fascinating. The explanations don't cut it, and we won't understand what's going on or how we could put it to best use until it's figured out. If I had the time I would do tests and check the edge under a microscope so I could see what's going on. That could lead to some real understanding.

I do know one thing. I hone in one direction and I use maybe 1/4 or less of the strokes you use with your pyramids. I may have to touch up more often because my edges are finer and more fragile, but they're also sharper and shave better with less effort and less irritation. I have extremely sensitive skin and one thing I can't tolerate is irritation. For me that rules out a rough striated edge immediately.

BTW, traditional honing tells you that a rougher edge will be more durable, but the whole idea with razors is to go for the sharper edge because it doesn't have to be as durable. Razors have always been sharpened more finely than typical knives, and even you pyramid guys are doing it.

Originally Posted by xman

Yeah, I didn't notice it at first, but by the end of the day I actually had a little stubble. I do still suspect I've been over focussed on the higher grits in the past and will be careful not to overdo that for a while.

This is just telling you that the razor isn't as sharp. In a more extreme case when a guy tells you his razor is scratchy and leaves stubble the first thing you tell him is that the edge isn't sharp enough. Of course the coarser edge will take down a tough growth faster, but it won't cut close. When you leave stubble and it grows back sooner you're not cutting as close.

You guys are noticing just what I would expect.

I've shaved with my Duble Duck Special, Duble Duck Satinedge and a new Sumate Barber De Luxe, having honed them using the super aggressive method we've been exploring for the last week and they all pulled. They did the job, but not as well as the W&B.

Sorry Alan, that's another black mark for this new method. I'm sure it has something to do with differing steels, but still ...

X