Thread: A little honing / shaving fun

That was really interesting! Thanks for sharing a cool idea Glen!

I'm really impressed at how close Ray's guesses were as well..!

Don't get me wrong. I agree that there is such a thing as "shaving sharp," but that is not necessarily the same as sharp in an absolute sense. I can get almost as good a shave off my Norton 8000 (or Japanese water stone) as I can off a 8,000 then 10,000, then .5 and .25 micron plus stropping on leather, edge. That's "shaving sharp." However if I look at the edge under 100x (or 200X, 500X, etc.) magnification the edges are definitely not "sharp," if we define sharp as an edge (a smooth or level edge; i.e., without micro serrations) with an acute angle of x degrees, approaching a zero radius as close as is possible. I know it is not necessary to get "the perfect edge" in order to get a good shave. For me it's just the challenge of getting as close to perfection as I can. And I'm not deluding myself. I know that if I were to look at my as "close-to-perfect-as-possible" edge with a scanning electron microscope at 20000X I would be disappointed--and I definitely cannot compare an edge using my 30X loupe, no matter how good the resolution, with a 100X microscope with good resolution. Magnification (plus resolution) "isn't everything, it's the only thing," when trying to decide how absolutely sharp (not shaving sharp) is an edge. And I think I'm going to regret getting into this discussion.

You are trying to scientifically define sharp, that is absolutely not possible with razors...

Applying science like that works for every other type of tool sharpness, it doesn't work for razors...
The difference is in your mirror, it is your face that determines sharpness and comfort on a straight razor not the stone nor microscope...

If you actually take the time to browse the forum you will find high mag, high res, pics of the edges from most of the stones... Some of the worst looking ones are from the Coticules and Japanese finishers so we know that pics and magnification does not relate to shaving feel...

Pics/magnification tell us a lot, but what they can never tell us is how the razor feels on each person's face..


I should add that using a Microscope when learning to hone, can be a great help as it helps you see the changes as they happen....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

If you actually take the time to browse the forum you will find high mag, high res, pics of the edges from most of the stones... Some of the worst looking ones are from the Coticules and Japanese finishers so we know that pics and magnification does not relate to shaving feel....

That is so true. My 16k Shapton leaves an almost mirror finish on the bevel, but the edge actually feels much harsher on the skin than the edge off my Maruichi. That edge actually looks sorta satiny under a loupe, but the shave is truly one of those velvet squeegee moments..!

Also, the 12k Naniwa leaves a similar mirror polish on an edge, but feels much smoother to me than the Shapton.

I know this is basically a +1, but high grit, high polish finishes arent necessarily the smoothest shaving edges.

Originally Posted by fdennis

Magnification (plus resolution) "isn't everything, it's the only thing," when trying to decide how absolutely sharp (not shaving sharp) is an edge. And I think I'm going to regret getting into this discussion.

Welcome to SRP and I'm glad you added your perspective and no pun intended. I already had a B&L stereoscope @ 30x for my vocation when I got into shaving with straight razors but didn't check the edges on my first few ebay acquisitions when I began shaving with them. Shortly thereafter, reading the forums, I did check them and found it remarkable that I could shave with the buggered up edges I had. They weren't that bad and the shaves weren't that good but they shaved and they were not close to perfect.

Time passed and I got into the sport of honing straights very enthusiastically. I became obsessed with it and got to be fairly proficient. I mailed a friend and forum member who is a honemeister a razor I had honed. He sent an email and told me that he had examined the edge under 100x and it had micro chips. I replied that if he stuck with 30x my honing would vastly improve . On another forum Robert Williams posted some very hi resolution pics of edges. I increased the power on my B&L to 45x and that is enough for my personal use.