Thread: Finishing with slurry on Japanese naturals

So I've asked JimR way too many times about this and he has been kind enough to respond with useful info every time, but I think it's finally time to stop bugging the guy as much.

I'm having very very inconsistent results with honing on these Japanese stones and would like some help if anyone could offer it. I have a kiita I got from Jim, a Nakayama Maruka with kan (a brown ring), and an Iwasaki choice stone. I got HAD and now I'm testing all the stones out. All of these are good stones from what I understand, so I don't think it's the stones' fault.

I've tried honing 10-15 times on each stone. I use either a piece of the kiita or another honzan slurry stone (that Jim tested and liked) to raise the slurry.

First let me talk about the successes before I move on to my problem. I honed a kamisori on the kiita once and the edge came out good. I'd say around 7.5/10. All I did was raise a milky slurry with the honzan slurry stone, hone the razor at a 50:3 or so ratio, refresh the slurry 2 or 3 times and then work the razor maybe 150-200 strokes on the final slurry. The razor wasn't popping arm hairs ATG above skin, but it did after stropping.

My only other real success was on my Puma 89. It was starting to tug just a tiny tiny bit so I thought what the hell. I first honed it on the Iwasaki with just water, but that made the edge harsh. So I used the Iwasaki with the kiita slurry stone and refreshed 2 or 3 times and honed using x strokes. Then I decided to switch to the other slurry stone and refreshed probably another 2 or 3 times (each time after around 50 laps). The razor pops hair ATG but not quite as well as some of my others (off Dylan's Asagi with just water or off my Y/G Escher). The shave was 8.5/10.

Every other time I've tried working with these hones, it's been a failure. I've tried razors that had bevels that I knew for sure were properly set and been unable to get them to shave readiness even though they weren't too far from it in the start. I've tried pressure, no pressure, back and forth strokes, circles, x strokes (these seem to be the best for some reason) and nothing has really worked. Razors that were shaving but not great and popping arm hairs ATG above skin stop doing so after I hone them in this method. They also stop shaving or get tuggier. On some razors (which were in the sharpness I just described), I've refreshed 5-7 times and then did 200 or more x strokes as the slurry dried down and haven't really gotten a smooth shave. Sometimes the razor is super tuggy and won't shave at all and sometimes it shaves but with some pull.

So that's my problem. Does anyone who has had success with this style of honing have any tips, suggestions, or questions that may help clarify?

I only have the one J-Nat, a Nakayama Maruichi that I got from sebell in the classifieds, so I'm no expert on them but I love the edge mine gives so I'll share what I do.

I basically combined a couple of ideas I read here, the first from Bruno and the second from Glen. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

I go to the Maruichi from either the 12k Naniwa or 16k Shapton depending on which I've been using. I start out with a medium slurry and I do 25 strokes, then I dilute to a light slurry and do another 25 strokes, then go to plain water and do another 25 strokes.

Then I do something Glen mentioned (I think it was Glen) that he called "25 strokes to dry". What he said was wet the stone then wipe all the standing water off just leaving the finest film of water on there. Theres so little water the stone that it practically looks dry already. Then start honing and after about 25 strokes the hone is totally dry, then I just go to my daily strop and test shave. Basically just keep honing though until the stone is dry.

Without fail this gives me the sharpest and smoothest edges I've ever had, and the shaves are always pure velvet squeegee.

Hope thats of some help!

That system works really, really well on the J-nats that break down the slurry and leave a better edge with that slurry going to dry then the edge off clean water... I'll be honest, that is a long shot that you have one of those Stu obviously does My Nakayama I was told to do that way too and it works..

If you have a Norton 8k it really works a treat, that was where I came up with the "Go to dry system" at..

I have a feeling you may be overhoning &/or using overly thick slurry. You don't say how fast your stones are but 200 passes seems an awful lot on razors that are "close." I don't know your stones so its just an assumption on my part.
Another way to finish is to use the lightest of slurries ie one that is not visible except for a slight cloudiness in the water on the razor. The stone should simply look wet. It is one step away from just using water but it will make a difference with some stones.

Good point Oz man I missed the 200 number when I read through it...

Yeah, 200 on some stones I've used would destroy the edge

Yeah, those 325 DMT's are pretty aggressive..!

Im expecting a Jnat soon.

Stu - you go from a 12K or 16K to the Jnat. Out of interest do you reckon that you could still get the same edge if you were to go from a 8K Nani say?

The number of strokes is kind of high.
As Oz mentioned you are probably overhoning.
My rule of thumb when I test a new stone is, medium slurry 20 circles each way 10 x-strokes and test shave. Then depending on the result I adjust number of strokes and slurry consistency.
I have had only one stone that requires the use of jim's method ,all other (10 stones and counting) were much faster.

Originally Posted by Scipio

Im expecting a Jnat soon.

Stu - you go from a 12K or 16K to the Jnat. Out of interest do you reckon that you could still get the same edge if you were to go from a 8K Nani say?

I reckon so. I have a DD Goldedge that Dylan honed which has a superb edge and he went from his 8k Naniwa to an Asagi on that one.