Thread: Coticule finishing speed

After a c12k and a very slow (but satisfying) asagi, I'm a bit sensitive to the speed of any new stone. I'm looking at coticules. Certainly the cutting speed w/ slurry is much faster, but since I'm looking at it for a finisher only - mostly for heavy sheffields, I'm curious what is considered fast for a coti when using water only - no slurry. For example - how many strokes would a fast coti take to display unambiguously darken water w/ metal swarf? Or would that be a valid measure of speed? I understand that slurry makes them cut much faster, but how would you gage the speed of a coti on water only - as a finisher?

Many Thanks in Advance

I've got a couple that are very fast and others that are in between. Still others that are slow. You pays your money and you takes your chances. OTOH, they are all good somewhere in the progression. Just IMHO.

Distinguishing between speed and fineness is difficult.

You can compensate for both factors with the pressure you exert. More pressure = more speed, less "fineness." A very light hand can give an excellent, keen edge even on a relatively coarse coti.

I've given up (for now) thinking along this dichotomy. As a final finisher, I apply the weight of the blade or less. If I get a great edge with 25-50 , it's a great final finisher. 50+ means an adequate finisher.

I've got a couple of cotis that simply won't do as a final finisher. Well, maybe with negative pressure, 200 strokes, lather, etc. But why bother?

Originally Posted by pinklather

how many strokes would a fast coti take to display unambiguously darken water w/ metal swarf? Or would that be a valid measure of speed? I understand that slurry makes them cut much faster, but how would you gage the speed of a coti on water only - as a finisher?

Many Thanks in Advance

I think it would depend on the nature of your stone. You could 'finish' a razor & not see "unambiguously darkened water w/ metal swarf'' so I don't see that as a valid measure unless of course you are honing kamisori with a soft iron side or a soft Sheffield wedge that had a lot of bevel contact on the stone.
As above post 25-50 strokes would put you into the fast range for a very fine coti finisher.

I think everyone else has covered it good. Natural stones and they all cut just a bit different. I have one with red in it that will turn a slurry grey after 20 passes. Then another that finishes great that is really pale yellow takes me a few more passes to get the job done. But the second mentioned finishes (IMO) better than the first. It's one of those things you will never know till you get one and try. It's a great stone to have. They are fun and put a great edge on a razor.

I appreciate the help.

The slow stones are in the hundreds for laps - so I'm burnt out on slow. It's so strange - that the coti is not touted as the hot finisher, yet everyone who has one or has used one, thinks they're great.

Maurice has a rock he recommends - std grade, non-std size, large, La Vienette for those who notice). I'm very much looking forward to it.

Thank you again, all.

Faster coticules on water tend to have a crispier finish to the face than the slower ones which become very mellow on the finish. The la veinette is going to be a good one and valuable, that layer is going to be one of the pricier layers in later 2011.

Originally Posted by pinklather

I appreciate the help.

The slow stones are in the hundreds for laps - so I'm burnt out on slow. It's so strange - that the coti is not touted as the hot finisher, yet everyone who has one or has used one, thinks they're great.

Maurice has a rock he recommends - std grade, non-std size, large, La Vienette for those who notice). I'm very much looking forward to it.

Thank you again, all.

if you do cirlces it is pretty quick.
For jnts you can significantly reduce the number of laps if you come from a good 8 or 12k stone. IME 20-30 laps are all you need in that case.

Originally Posted by mainaman

if you do cirlces it is pretty quick.
For jnts you can significantly reduce the number of laps if you come from a good 8 or 12k stone. IME 20-30 laps are all you need in that case.

great big +1 on the circles. i've got a Vienete and a La Grise that both finish superbly. neither will ever darken water. in fact, finishingis never supposed to remove that much metal. With slurry, while doing bevel work, or sharpening, the the Vienette is noticinly faster than the La Grise, but you asked about finishing, and betwen the two there is no siificant difference.

i also understand you concern aout slow finishing rocks. When i'm feeling patient, perhaps while i'm honing in front of the TV, i'll finish on a Charnley Forest, a slow stone by anyone's measure. But i suspect that you'll like the Coti finish. its smooooooth. When i finishnon the Coti i simply do circles during the tv commercials. by the time the bad guy is dead and the hero saves the girl my razors simply frighten the hair off my face; no shaving is required.

You know, They're all different. I have many. La Nouvelle vein, La Vienette, La petite blance, La Grosse blance, dressante, the list goes on and on. Lot's of guys, including me, like to use a one two punch when it comes to Cotis. I start on the dressante, nice pink stone, good cutter, fast...and i finish on my La Nouvelle, Pale yellow, wood grain looking stone... it's good finisher. I'm normally not concerned with speed when I get to the finisher. More so, on the cutter. So that's where I'd normally be checking how fast the slurry darkens.

I've always liked my La Nouvelle for finishing. It leaves a very smooth edge on the blade.