Thread: Honing Advice appreciated!

In the very first picture, it looks like there is some discoloration at the toe of the razor. Is that discoloration caused by heat, by any chance? You mention that the blade started the shave comfortably, but by the time you were done, it was dull enough to sit on.

When a blade loses it's temper (usually by being exposed to excessive heat), it will exhibit this behavior. Most of the time, a blade that has completely lost it's temper will be impossible to sharpen; the edge crumbles as it is honed. In this case, it looks like the blade was heated enough for the temper to be lost enough for the blade to be unable to keep a sharp edge through a shave.

Your remarks about having difficulty sharpening that area could also be caused by (among other things) the blade losing it's temper.

If a blade is heated to the point that the heat discolors the metal, the temper has definitely been lost.

Of course, this all is assuming that the marks on your blade came from a heat source.

I would send the blade out to a reputable honemeister and have him evaluate it.

Originally Posted by FloorPizza

In the very first picture, it looks like there is some discoloration at the toe of the razor. Is that discoloration caused by heat, by any chance? You mention that the blade started the shave comfortably, but by the time you were done, it was dull enough to sit on.
it.

The discolouration is purely a light effect on the picture. I know discolouration of stainless steel starts only above (approximately) 400°C (worked at my sisters' for a while, she sells and installs fireplaces, if necessary with stainless steel tubing), and the razor was definitely not subjected to such temperatures. It's stored in the bathroom, and the warmest heat-source (apart from the misses ) are two halogen spots, which become hot, but don't produce that heat, besides, the razor never comes close to them.

I must thank you for the sharp eye nevertheless!

Sending it to a reputable honemeister... Well, not that fond of sending the razor for a roundtrip to America before trying something myself.

Well, I was going to take the razor to work today, to put it under the microscope, but I failed to get at work... We dropped off the kids at school (by which time I was sleeping in the car) went for my car, which was still at the garage, and by the time we got there I was all shaky. (I should have been better from the flu by now). So I went back to the doc, and on top of the flu, now I got a bronchitis. So now I have some antibiotics, and leave from work the rest of the week. So no microscope pics...
Oh well, don't feel like it either, my head is trying to explode, and I'm going to lay down and sleep till I'm better. I'll be back when I'm better, and then we'll finish this history.

Laterz.

Alright,
a good afternoon sleep can do so good. Now, as I didn't get to see the edge under a microscope, I asked the misses to bring me a loupe (x10) from work, and she did. So I looked at my trouble razor with it, and compared it to my very comfortable shaving Bartmann (which gave me an easy bbs this morning) and the difference was quite clear: The Bartmann showed a nice clean edge, the other showed me what I would describe as little mouse bites, as I can't find another word. And at some of these mouse bites, the metal missing seemed to be bent away.
So that indicates overhoning then? Or did I, as nun2sharp said, just put too much pressure on?

So depending on that I have to set out a new strategy, so I won't go at it too wildly again

My most important question at the moment is: do I need to set a new bevel? If yes, can I do it with the 3K? If no (don't need to set new bevel), do I just go for light strokes to get the crumbles away, and achieve a nice edge? Or do I go for pyramids?

Some more of your very much appreciated advice is welcome

Congratulations on the find! Magnification tells you almost everything you need to know. Time to tape that spine and re set the bevel! I would opt for a 1k stone, maybe even some low grit wet and dry sandpaper. Once the bevel is reset without any evidence of chips, divots or mouse bites move up the grits and watch the pressure. Be sure to check the edge periodically as you are honing, a lot of times if the metal is rotting the old chips will grind away only to be replaced by others, this is especially true with old Sheffield steel. Be sure to check the edge after the shave test as well in order to see what the whiskers have done to it. Have fun!

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Congratulations on the find! Magnification tells you almost everything you need to know. Time to tape that spine and re set the bevel! I would opt for a 1k stone, maybe even some low grit wet and dry sandpaper. Once the bevel is reset without any evidence of chips, divots or mouse bites move up the grits and watch the pressure. Be sure to check the edge periodically as you are honing, a lot of times if the metal is rotting the old chips will grind away only to be replaced by others, this is especially true with old Sheffield steel. Be sure to check the edge after the shave test as well in order to see what the whiskers have done to it. Have fun!

+1 on the microscope if you have one.

Do not forget the magic marker trick -- it makes
it easy to see if the hone is touching the right bits of
the blade.

Once you have set the bevel lighten up on
the honing and limit yourself to the 8K side
of the norton for a couple shave tests.

On the 8K side alone.
Walk a batch of circles up each side leave
the slurry in place... then ten normal hone
strokes rinse the hone and ten more normal
hone strokes.

Strop on canvas then leather and shave test.

OK, this is what I did (everything extremely light!!!):
-taped
-applied marker to see what I was touching
-20 backstrokes on 3K side
-20 more after check with loupe
-re-applied marker
-40 circles on one side
-65 circles on other side (odd side)
(odd thing is, marker showed me I was not touching the middle part towards the heel, corrected by doing some circles with the heel not on the hone)
*looked great under loupe, TNT ok, AHT ok except for toe -> few light circles with only toe on hone -> ok
-10 X-strokes on 3K side

-30 circles each side on 8K side
-10 X-strokes right behind
-rinsed the hone + 10 extra X-strokes.

*loupe -> ok AHT -> OK

so I stropped on canvas, on leather, and went for a Test shave.
First impression again: very smooth comfortable shave. Until I finished the right cheek, and immediatly went for a XTG pass on the right cheek (always do that), there I got the feeling it could be better. And when getting to the neck, it, again, was more scraping of lather then it was shaving. Did pull through this time, with a lousy result , but what's weird to me, is the the first 4-5cm of the shave is of a hole different (good) quality then the rest of the shave.
I checked the blade with the loupe, there's no nicks, no mouse bites, no chips, it still looks fine, and it doesn't feel as dull as last time, a TNT is still fine as well, so I suppose I just did too little this time.
So tomorrow I'm planning on doing some pyramids, and test shave again.
That razor WILL shave

Originally Posted by jefpunk

first 4-5cm of the shave is of a hole different (good) quality then the rest of the shave.

This is sign of over honing

I checked the blade with the loupe, there's no nicks, no mouse bites, no chips, it still looks fine, and it doesn't feel as dull as last time,

This is against it?

a TNT is still fine as well, so I suppose I just did too little this time.
So tomorrow I'm planning on doing some pyramids, and test shave again.
That razor WILL shave

This message is a little confusing.
if your blade was overhoned when you check by microscope you should see edge bend ,small chips etc.
in fact you are saying none of them were in there?
Try check the edge with microscope then strop 50 times and check it again.
see there is any differences.
hope this helps.

I am puzzled by your results so I went back to the beginning of this thread and looked at the pic of your razor. I really have to ask if the shape of the edge is a frown?

Does anyone have a link to a gif or a pic/video for checking for a frown shape to an edge?

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

This message is a little confusing.
if your blade was overhoned when you check by microscope you should see edge bend ,small chips etc.
in fact you are saying none of them were in there?
Try check the edge with microscope then strop 50 times and check it again.
see there is any differences.
hope this helps.

Hi there, thanks for your time!
I check with a 10X loupe. First time I honed the razor, it was clearly overhoned, and at 10x I could easily see little bent parts, that sheared so to speak, so idd you get little chips etc.
Then I took it through this last bit of honing, starting with backstrokes to get rid of the overhoning part, and it all looked fine.
Now, with the 10x, I don't see any evidence of bending and chips. Should I look at it with greater magnification? Or should any overhoning be visible by 10x?
I stropped and looked again, but saw no difference... hence my thought on doing some pyramids on it tomorrow...

Thanks!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I am puzzled by your results so I went back to the beginning of this thread and looked at the pic of your razor. I really have to ask if the shape of the edge is a frown?

Does anyone have a link to a gif or a pic/video for checking for a frown shape to an edge?

Must be an optical illusion, just took another good look at it, and it's smiling nor frowning.
Never looked that much at this razor before I must admit. Maybe it's doing all this just to get my attention...