Thread: Bevel with a blue Belgian?

Cant say if what i have is fast or slow stone, because i don't have enough experience to have a reference. with time as you guys said i'll learn what my stones can do. i'm not into restoration for the time being, so my razors are in good condition, but i did want some advice as to if i needed lower grit stones like a 1000k to maintain my razor? (this is why i asked if you could set a bevel) from what i've read from your replies the coti and bbw have very similar ability or application? and theres not much difference between them at least thats the impression i get? could someone clarify...

Thanks again for all your feed back.

hello again,

I've just gone through a lot of this forums history pertaining to this, and this is some of the info i got from it, most people do not recommend this as the only stone for a beginner, because of the many variables that come into play when trying to hone with one "natural" stone. Most significantly the slurry. although some learn and the coti becomes their lover. But the general recommendation in the this forum's past is that for newbs, a step progression up in grits through about 4 or more hones is more consistent and easier to learn. But i'm still going to go with my coti/BBW combo, if i have to i can settle to get other grits...

could anyone say how they use these stones "together" to get there edge to nice shaving comfort? the wiki said that the bbw can reach a better edge with slurry but the coti is a better finisher and fast cutter? i found this funny...

Thanks everyone for your help!

I've read through Bart's paper. FWIW, I've taught statistics and research design at the college level. For those who think, "Yeah -- that means bupkus," I'd say, "You're probably right." So take this as one guy's opinions.

There were limitations to the study. Several of those have been pointed out in this thread. I believe the Discussion section of the study anticipated all of them. There are no definitive, final studies. There are only bricks in the wall. Our house is less drafty because of this brick. It's a good study, and the controls are about as tight as real-world research gets.

Bart is, obviously, a great fan of all rocks Belgian, but he does not sell them. To my knowledge, he has meticulously avoided involvement with any marketing or retailing of the Ardennes product. He is a fan, not an owner. The product may benefit from his enthusiasm, just as the Yankees benefit from every ticket purchased. I don't believe Bart benefits financially.

I'd be interested in Maurice's take on this. Hard to imagine he would be, at least from a purely business standpoint, enthusiastic -- yellow cotis sell for considerably more than their BBW counterparts. If they are equal in performance, it's difficult to see the profit motive. "Here, buy this Escalade for $20K more than this Tahoe. Yeah, it's the same car, but notice the pretty pearlescent paint! Can't get that on a Tahoe!" Yeah -- I realize this works on some folks (my wife for one!)

Of course, if BBW prices spike upwards, some suspicion may be justified.

Originally Posted by 111Nathaniel

the wiki said that the bbw can reach a better edge with slurry but the coti is a better finisher and fast cutter? i found this funny...

That was written in 2008 by Bart. I wonder if he still feels that way.

You'll also notice he says a 'light 'slurry on the BBW as a coarse slurry will lose your edge.
A coarse fast, bevel setting grade, Coti may not get you a super fine edge compared to a finer BBW but as is often mentioned you have to take each individual stone on its merits.
You may be surprised just how much they can vary.

Originally Posted by zib

Gentlemen: Please keep the discussion civilized. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and both sides of the discussion are welcome....

Who will talk about his experiences with the BBW as bevel setter? I think that this thread is confusing all the members with this futile discussion about the coticule.be site and its document about BBW.

Originally Posted by du212

Who will talk about his experiences with the BBW as bevel setter? I think that this thread is confusing all the members with this futile discussion about the coticule.be site and its document about BBW.

My experience is that it can be done, but I wouldn't do it or recommend it to anyone (except as a pure exercise). If the razor is very close to having the bevel set (like a NOS razor or a new Dovo or the likes), it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. If the razor is an ebay special, it could take hours. Either way, there are other hones (like any 1k) that will do the same job (setting the bevel) faster.

I would say the exact same thing about setting a bevel with a coticule or a comparable Jnat or an 8k synthetic or a 10k synthetic or any other fine grit hone one might want to do one stone honing with. Some folks may like to dig holes with spoons, but I prefer a shovel. So long as you enjoy what you do, that's all that matters - who cares what anyone else does or thinks, right? (I don't mean that to be rude, I just mean that, really, if someone is happy, that's what counts.)

Originally Posted by 111Nathaniel

Hello, I'm very new at straight saving, but i do have a blue belgian/yellow Coticule 5-1.5 inche combo stone. And i was wondering if i could set a bevel on the blue which would be approx. 4000grit without a slurry?

And you know this BB to be 4k for sure ? You really need to assess how fast the stone cuts & its scratch pattern by experimenting. Don't assume a grit just because that's what people claim. Belgian stones will mostly cut faster with slurry so don't try it with just water unless its a real soft self slurrying stone which may even be a disadvantage if a lot of lapping is needed to true it as you work.
As has already been said it should work just fine for razors that don't need a lot of work but put it next to a 4k synthetic & you can then see if it compares.

I didn't mean to post the link to the experiment to cause more friction between members of different forums. The reason I posted this was so maybe some of us here would read it and try it as something new and create a discussion based on the relevant OP. Is anyone here actually going to try this method as written? That's what I was basically asking when I made my post because I know I like experimenting with my stones and thought it would be good fun to try it out.

Id like to hear the experiences with this particular method, thanks!

If I have time I might give it a shot just to see.

It's pretty interesting, considering that "common knowledge" a year ago was that a BBW without slurry was useless, and with slurry it was about a 4k. Somewhere along the line it became that it's about a 4k with just water and cuts faster with slurry. Now, it seems, that the stone is about 4k with slurry and a finisher with just water.
Also interesting is that the "common knowledge" used to be that BBWs were very consistent from one stone to another. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore either.
I never really played with one a whole lot, but I think the lesson I learned here is don't believe everything you read. At this point I have no idea what a BBW is or isn't capable of.

I do not see what everyone is getting all up in arms about, it is just another method that can be used to hone razors.

Isn't that what this forum is all about? Finding different ways to use and maximize the results of the various stones?