Thread: Which edge do you prefer and why?

Thank you guys,
Great feedback. There seems to be a lot of interest on judging performance of edges from various stones and regimen.

Here's what I have decided to do:
My friend Rene will send me 3 identical razors (same grind, steel, size, etc...), which over the next several weeks, I will test (visual and shave-test) as follows:

Series 1:

1. Coti polish/Finish
2. Coti polish, Escher (Y/G) finish
3. Coti polish, JNat finish (Botan/Mejiro/Koma nagura + tomae nagura progression)

I will take pictures (as best as I can) and test shave and post results

Series 2:

1. J-series Shapton* (1k, 2k, 5k, 12k)
2. J-series Shapton* (1k, 2k, 5k, 12k) + JNat finish (Botan/Mejiro/Koma nagura + tomae nagura progression)
3. J-series Shapton* (1k, 2k, 5k, 12k) + JNat finish (with Atoma slurry) - as per So's recommendation

I may not need to do 1k and 2k in series 2 and could possibly get away with just 5k, 12k, but we'll see how the edges looks after my test shaves from series 1.

#2 & #3 (in Series 2) will give me on how different the Atoma and Nagura progressions are, both visually and practically (i.e., shave test).

At some point, if time (and people's interest) permits, I will include more complex regimen (as per Diburden's observation/recommendation in post #38) like doing an [Escher followed by Asagi) and [Asagi followed by Escher] and comparing those edges and test shaves.

*Note: I will hopefully get these Shaptons when So's dad in Japan (situation is not clear yet) is ready or can ship them. I heard from So and he and family are OK, but don't know when he may be able to ship these out to me (His family's safety in Japan is more important right now that these stones). Series 2 experiment will depend on when I get the stones from So...stay tuned.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Series 2:

1. J-series Shapton* (1k, 2k, 5k, 12k)
2. J-series Shapton* (1k, 2k, 5k, 12k) + JNat finish (Botan/Mejiro/Koma nagura + tomae nagura progression)
3. J-series Shapton* (1k, 2k, 5k, 12k) + JNat finish (with Atoma slurry) - as per So's recommendation

I may not need to do 1k and 2k in series 2 and could possibly get away with just 5k, 12k, but we'll see how the edges looks after my test shaves from series 1.

#2 & #3 (in Series 2) will give me on how different the Atoma and Nagura progressions are, both visually and practically (i.e., shave test).

You will like the Shap pros but .... you may find doing the multi nagura too much after the 12k. The razor will be as close to shave ready at 12k as "dammit" is to swearing . I finished a DD Dwarf yesterday after the 12k with 15 strokes on an almost invisible Atoma slurry. It needed no more. Look forward to your results

Originally Posted by onimaru55

You will like the Shap pros but .... you may find doing the multi nagura too much after the 12k. The razor will be as close to shave ready at 12k as "dammit" is to swearing . I finished a DD Dwarf yesterday after the 12k with 15 strokes on an almost invisible Atoma slurry. It needed no more. Look forward to your results

Thanks Oz...I am rather nervous about these Shaptons as I was told they are a bit more "finicky" to get used to than normal synthetics or GS Shaptons. But, I was also told that once I get these Shaptons figured out, that I would love the stones...So, your words of encouragement give me hope.

You are definitely right about the progression Oz...Maybe on #2 & #3, I will limit it to 5k and progress to JNat. The only reason I included the progression is to compare a normal nagura progression to the Atoma slurry, which I still wish to do. This is to satisfy my curiosity in the debate between the two schools of thought; (1) Nagura folks, and (2) Atoma folks. I hope I can get the Shaptons in time (and a new Misu Asagi + Atoma).

I dunno about finicky. They need lapping like most new stones but I didn't spend long at all on mine. They don't like soap, hot water or long soaking & they're hard, harder than the GS but I like that Just stay light handed & let the stone work & you'll be fine. Great with slurry too. I also like that that you can jump 5k -12k.

I think you could easily jump to a Nagura progression after 5k but if you go to 12k just spend less time on each Nagura as the blade will be so near ready at that point. I actually tried it today & can't see any damage. Don't panic
So do you have a small chunk of Tomae stone to use as Nagura or did you mean Tomonagaura.? I only ask as I just bought a Tomae recently

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I dunno about finicky. They need lapping like most new stones but I didn't spend long at all on mine. They don't like soap, hot water or long soaking & they're hard, harder than the GS but I like that Just stay light handed & let the stone work & you'll be fine. Great with slurry too. I also like that that you can jump 5k -12k.

I think you could easily jump to a Nagura progression after 5k but if you go to 12k just spend less time on each Nagura as the blade will be so near ready at that point. I actually tried it today & can't see any damage. Don't panic
So do you have a small chunk of Tomae stone to use as Nagura or did you mean Tomonagaura.? I only ask as I just bought a Tomae recently

That's good advice Oz. I'd been told that lapping these Shaptons with the Atoma will take some time and will "break in" the Atoma too. From what you told me, doesn't seem like there's a specific magic formula with these stones other than a light touch.

The other thing I was told is that these Shapton pros are best with carbon steel. Stainless or other type alloys go better with the GS...any thoughts on this? Have you had any similar experiences or used these to hone ss blades? The only reason I ask is I haven't owned or used GS Shaptons before and am making a leap of faith to the pro series.

BTW: I meant tomonagura. I don't have a tomae. Also, I think I will stick to my Nakayama Maruka Asagi (Honzan - hard stone) for this experiment. I know this stone well and don't have to worry about the added variability of the Misu Asagi. One thing I may do is lap it with the Atoma when I get it, even though it is well lapped.

Yah, I just use em like any other stone but I did find that first lapping was crucial. Could feel a few high spots out of the box but easily lapped out.
I suppose if you use a 1200 Atoma it will take longer than a coarser one & lapping will break in DP's in general. If you want to dedicate a DP to slurry work alone a little time on a Spyderco UF will "gentle" them right out but won't be much good for flattening after that. I have the 140 & the 400 as well for heavier work.

I haven't tried the Pros on SS but the GS yes. Of course, they work well on SS but as so many users will tell you they work on carbon steel too. So far all I can say is the Pros melt carbon steel away a bit faster & hold their shape a bit better than the GS.
The GS is designed more for modern alloys & rule of thumb is High Rockwell alloys use GS, High Carbon use Pro but of course you can overlap. There is also the grey coloured High Carbon GS line but I think they start at 4k ... tho my 220 grit GS is grey
I'm fairly new to the Pro line but IIRC I think JimmyHAD & Utopian have them. Maybe PM them for their experiences with SS.

Good idea to use a finisher with known characteristics . At least this way you test the new Shaps & have no variables in the end game.

Funny thing about pros and alloys, FME 1k-2k do fine with SS and some alloys, as does the 12k. Everthing in between the 5k and 8k leaves the stones feeling grimey although they can be convinced to work to some degree. Hope that is useful to you.
GS 16k and 30k do wonderful things to SS and some alloys and brings them to a level of sharpness that is amazing that I can not get with other stones I have.

Hey guys,
This is very useful indeed. It seems like I may need to at some point, mix and match different Shaptons (pros and GS) and maximize efficiency with all kinds of steel.

Kingfish: So, for the future, to cover the range of steel (at reasonable cost witout having to buy both classes of stones), would the following be an OK series to have: 1k, 2k, Shapton Pros. 4k, 8K Shapton GS and 12k Shapton pro and/or 16k, 30k Shapton GS.

For this experiment at least, Rene is sending me carbon blades, so these Shapton pros should cover it well. But it doesn't look like I'll be getting the stones shipped anytime soon because of the disaster in Japan. I'll keep you guys posted on the Series 2, but I think I can start n Series 1 soon.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Hey guys,
Kingfish: So, for the future, to cover the range of steel (at reasonable cost witout having to buy both classes of stones), would the following be an OK series to have: 1k, 2k, Shapton Pros. 4k, 8K Shapton GS and 12k Shapton pro and/or 16k, 30k Shapton GS.

That combination of stones should enable you to hone anything on this planet. The 2k is really a nice stone and really cleans up the edge. The more I work with that stone the more I like it, and rarely have to put a razor on a 1k. Also I don't think every razor requires that many stones in progression. You can easily jump from the 8k to the 30k very easily.

Hey Robert! I cant wait to see your results. I have the 16k shapton gs if you need to borrow it.