Thread: Which edge do you prefer and why?

Hey guys,
I finally got my Shaptons in a few days ago. These are great looking stones and very colorful. Rene also sent me 3 Geneva Cutlery razors of same kind/type. One is a tad bit smaller than the other two but main point is that steel is the same. So, I honed them up as per series 1 experiment noted in post #1. I have labeled the blades with the appropriate number so as to identify what honing was used (that's what the blue tape on the scale with the number signify).

So, here are the results:
Blade #1 was honed up as follows:

1. Bevel setting: Set the bevel using Shapton Pro 1k stone (after lapping of course with the Atoma 1.2k). It took me ~15 minutes to set proper bevel on this and clean up the edge/bevel a bit.
2. Sharpen/Polish/Finish: Coticule (La Grosse Blanche) using the dilucot method By the time I got through with this blade, she was popping hairs (HHT) effortlessly .

I took a picture of the bevel/edge (see below)...Sorry Sham: no matter what I did, I could not, for the life of me, focus directly on the edge to get a shot for you.

Coticule edge (sharpen/polish/finish)


As for the results, I have posted them in the SOTD for today. Link is HERE, if interested. In brief, all in all great shave...This blade was ultra sharp but less smooth. I have in fact come up with a rating system for this experiment based on (A) Sharpness and (B) smoothness. I rate this blade/edge as follows:

Sharpness: 9 or 9.5
Smoothness: 6

Robert, I often say that if you look with a microscope, it might scare hell out of you!
No Microscopes for me! I go with the shave and feel. If these 3 shave well, No point in looking!
You big old lovable microscope junkie, You!
Tom
(I will say, as most have, that #2 looks best, if it a beauty contest! # 1 scares hell out of me!)

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Robert, I often say that if you look with a microscope, it might scare hell out of you!
No Microscopes for me! I go with the shave and feel. If these 3 shave well, No point in looking!
You big old lovable microscope junkie, You!
Tom
(I will say, as most have, that #2 looks best, if it a beauty contest! # 1 scares hell out of me!)

Hehehehe...Thanks Tom,
I am scared no matter what . So, I might as well peek and see what scares me .

Not a beauty contest though...Just want to see if smoothness has a "look" per se that I can quantify/identify. But I agree...shave test is the ONLY and ultimate test of a razors edge.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Hey guys,
I finally got my Shaptons in a few days ago. These are great looking stones and very colorful. Rene also sent me 3 Geneva Cutlery razors of same kind/type. One is a tad bit smaller than the other two but main point is that steel is the same. So, I honed them up as per series 1 experiment noted in post #1. I have labeled the blades with the appropriate number so as to identify what honing was used (that's what the blue tape on the scale with the number signify).

So, here are the results:
Blade #1 was honed up as follows:

1. Bevel setting: Set the bevel using Shapton Pro 1k stone (after lapping of course with the Atoma 1.2k). It took me ~15 minutes to set proper bevel on this and clean up the edge/bevel a bit.
2. Sharpen/Polish/Finish: Coticule (La Grosse Blanche) using the dilucot method By the time I got through with this blade, she was popping hairs (HHT) effortlessly .

I took a picture of the bevel/edge (see below)...Sorry Sham: no matter what I did, I could not, for the life of me, focus directly on the edge to get a shot for you.

Coticule edge (sharpen/polish/finish)


As for the results, I have posted them in the SOTD for today. Link is HERE, if interested. In brief, all in all great shave...This blade was ultra sharp but less smooth. I have in fact come up with a rating system for this experiment based on (A) Sharpness and (B) smoothness. I rate this blade/edge as follows:

Sharpness: 9 or 9.5
Smoothness: 6

It is ok. I do understand it is not easy to take picture of the edge.
My next question is About the smoothness?
Do you think you get maximum out of your Coticule? usually (not always) coticule shouldn't have smoothness problem instead should have sharpness issue?(again not always)
Any idea?

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

It is ok. I do understand it is not easy to take picture of the edge.
My next question is About the smoothness?
Do you think you get maximum out of your Coticule? usually (not always) coticule shouldn't have smoothness problem instead should have sharpness issue?(again not always)
Any idea?

I dig this experiment, Robert. I am very much looking forward to read all your findings as you reach them

As Sham says, I was also surprised to read your rating on that Coticule edge.
I'm not much of a Coticule expert(or any other stone for that matter), but I have read a lot about this stone and what seems to be the major plus on these stones are their wonderfully smooth edges.
I guess that's how it can be with naturals..

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

It is ok. I do understand it is not easy to take picture of the edge.
My next question is About the smoothness?
Do you think you get maximum out of your Coticule? usually (not always) coticule shouldn't have smoothness problem instead should have sharpness issue?(again not always)
Any idea?

Originally Posted by Birnando

I dig this experiment, Robert. I am very much looking forward to read all your findings as you reach them

As Sham says, I was also surprised to read your rating on that Coticule edge.
I'm not much of a Coticule expert(or any other stone for that matter), but I have read a lot about this stone and what seems to be the major plus on these stones are their wonderfully smooth edges.
I guess that's how it can be with naturals..

Hi Sham/Birnando,
I was honestly surprised too. I have 4 Coticules and this one actually gives me a pretty nice sharp edge...but according to Bart's site/rating, this Vein of Coticule, in general, should not be as sharp or smooth. I have a LPB and a La Veinette that give me a fairly smoother, albeit less sharp edge. But this LGB, I have grown to really like a lot and find her knack for. I consistently get a very nice sharp edge off of her. I always use an extra light touch on her (almost) all the way through the dilucot, especially the water phase.

Granted, I always found that my best regimen (for me) is the Coti followed by JNat w/ nagura progression. The JNat puts a smooth edge that I have come to really like. Maybe my experience with the JNat smoothness is what's biasing me against the Coticules edge smoothness.

Generally, I found that with the Coticules (even my La Veinette), the best I can do is no more than with my Naniwa 12k, which when compared to my JNat finish, I consider it to be sharper rather than smooth.

Even a few hours after the shave today, my face feels a bit of the leftover sharpness from this blade today. Do doubt I had a great shave, but skin feels a micro bit of rawness, which I usually don't get from a smooth edge.

Anyway, I knew that regardless of how I look at this experiment, I am the subjective and biased experimenter...so, to avoid this, at the end of this experiment, I will send the 3 blades back to Rene (honed 3 different ways) and have him judge the edges independently. He will be blinded as to the nature of the honing regimen used (only I will know that) and thus, can give us a better assessment of edge performance.

don't get frustrated natural stones will never act same.
There is always differences among them.
Keep good work up and good luck. let us know the result doesn't matter good or bad.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Hi Sham/Birnando,
I was honestly surprised too. I have 4 Coticules and this one actually gives me a pretty nice sharp edge...but according to Bart's site/rating, this Vein of Coticule, in general, should not be as sharp or smooth. I have a LPB and a La Veinette that give me a fairly smoother, albeit less sharp edge. But this LGB, I have grown to really like a lot and find her knack for. I consistently get a very nice sharp edge off of her. I always use an extra light touch on her (almost) all the way through the dilucot, especially the water phase.

Granted, I always found that my best regimen (for me) is the Coti followed by JNat w/ nagura progression. The JNat puts a smooth edge that I have come to really like. Maybe my experience with the JNat smoothness is what's biasing me against the Coticules edge smoothness.

Generally, I found that with the Coticules (even my La Veinette), the best I can do is no more than with my Naniwa 12k, which when compared to my JNat finish, I consider it to be sharper rather than smooth.

Even a few hours after the shave today, my face feels a bit of the leftover sharpness from this blade today. Do doubt I had a great shave, but skin feels a micro bit of rawness, which I usually don't get from a smooth edge.

Anyway, I knew that regardless of how I look at this experiment, I am the subjective and biased experimenter...so, to avoid this, at the end of this experiment, I will send the 3 blades back to Rene (honed 3 different ways) and have him judge the edges independently. He will be blinded as to the nature of the honing regimen used (only I will know that) and thus, can give us a better assessment of edge performance.

Cool!
Thanks for that very thorough walk thru
My La Dressante au bleu is quite opposite your LPB. It leaves a very smooth edge, but so far I have not been able to get that combined with enough sharpness, like I do on my JNats, Escher or even my finer synthetics.

Sending them back and having them blind-tested is a great idea. The results of that test, and the final images is gonna be very cool to see. I do use a 400X microscope myself, and find it a useful tool sometimes.
Thanks again, Robert!

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

don't get frustrated natural stones will never act same.
There is always differences among them.
Keep good work up and good luck. let us know the result doesn't matter good or bad.

Thank you Sham for the encouraging words my friend. I don't feel frustrated though. I, in fact, love this honing thing. it's very very therapeutic and relaxing. I must say though, I thought that I would have an easier time learning the ins and outs of a Coticule than a JNat, but the opposite came to be true . In time, I may perfectly dial in an edge on a Coticule. We'll see what the shave quality will be on the Escher and JNats coming up.

Originally Posted by Birnando

Cool!
Thanks for that very thorough walk thru
My La Dressante au bleu is quite opposite your LPB. It leaves a very smooth edge, but so far I have not been able to get that combined with enough sharpness, like I do on my JNats, Escher or even my finer synthetics.

Sending them back and having them blind-tested is a great idea. The results of that test, and the final images is gonna be very cool to see. I do use a 400X microscope myself, and find it a useful tool sometimes.
Thanks again, Robert!

Thank you Birnando,
I guess that's the virtues of naturals...unpredictability. I bet that if you and I used the same stone, we may get very different results. That is the fun. It's whatever we make of the stones, not the stones per se.

I am in no way a honer like most master honers around here. But, I do enjoy honing my own edges a lot. That is pure satisfaction. And experimenting...well, that's my nature. I have to take something apart to see how it works and why.

I enjoy you guys' comments...it helps me with all the edge dialing. Keep them coming.

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Hey guys,
I finally got my Shaptons in a few days ago.

So, here are the results:

Sharpness: 9 or 9.5
Smoothness: 6

Got my Kuromaku also (2,5,12k) Like em a lot. Can see myself getting 1k & lower. Damn HAD

Is the smoothness what you normally get from that coti ? I know your scope is high mag. but can't help thinking that edge needs more refining. I guess like others I would have expected the smoothness to be higher