Thread: Need diagnostic help...

OK, my 4/8k slip stones arrived today, so I'm going to give them a try tonight. Couple more questions here:

FiReSTaRT mentioned that it would take more pyramids with these than on the Norton. Why is that? Are they less aggressive than the Norton, even though they have the same grit?

Second, should I start out doing pyramids, or should I just work on the 4000 stone for a while and then start pyramids?

(I'm not too concerned about wasting metal on this razor, since it's pretty basic and only cost me about $1.50 on eBay.)

Meanwhile I'll start saving for that Norton...

Thanks,
Josh

Hi Josh,
Here's the lowdown on the stones:
1) They are slow-cutters compared to N4/8k, they are shorter and narrower. Therefore you have 2 handicaps right away (cutting rate and surface covered per pass). On a good note, they will turn your razor into a shaver.
2) You should download Randy T's help file on the pyramid and Lynn's tips, especially #2.
Even though the disclaimer says that the Help file only applies to N4k/8k and that the pyramid needs to be adjusted to work on other hones, it will work on the slipstones that you have, it will just need to be repeated.

What I would do if I were you is do about 40 passes on the 4k with pressure. Then another 30 passes with the 8k. The 8k will polish the current bevel and you'll know which parts of the blade need more work and you can focus on them as you work the 4k/8k pyramids until you get an even bevel.

If you're planning on buying the Norton, get the 2" wide one. It will feel the same way those slipstones do, but it will cut faster and with the longer strokes, you will need fewer passes. In addition to that you save a bit of cash.

Edit: A few more tips:
1) Lap the working surfaces of the stones after soaking them, by rubbing them against each other, under the tap.
2) You can use the thick side of one slipstone to clean the accumulated metal off the surface of the other, again under the tap.
3) If your edge has any nicks or pitting, you can use circular honing on the underside of the 4k to eliminate'em.

Originally Posted by joshearl

should I start out doing pyramids, or should I just work on the 4000 stone for a while and then start pyramids?

You should always evaluate the razor before you do anything. Some might even just need stropping. Once it's evaluated you can determine how much work it needs. If it's dull, jump into your pyramids. If it's almost there go right to the 8K, do a few strokes and test again.

The only shave-ready razor I ever received was sold as shave ready by Tony M. The rest of them needed quite a bit of work on the hones even when I started working with the Norton. The only tryly easy one was The Winner, but I think other delicately ground razors will give me as little trouble as it did now that I've got a fast cutter.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

The only shave-ready razor I ever received was sold as shave ready by Tony M. The rest of them needed quite a bit of work on the hones even when I started working with the Norton. The only tryly easy one was The Winner, but I think other delicately ground razors will give me as little trouble as it did now that I've got a fast cutter.

I have won 5 razors on ebay in the last few months they were all unused and while it wasn't much to get them shave ready, they all needed some work. (Tony's 4 sided pasted paddle did the trick to get them ready to go)

By the way this is my 2k post :O

Congrats Rich. It's good to know I'm not the only loudmouth out there

One thing you need to keep in mind is that even shave ready razors sold by our members may not be shave ready for you. THe best anyone can do without knowing you is to make the razor shave ready for the average guy. If you have special needs, such as you like your razor extra sharp or you have a very tough beard, the razor may not be shave ready for you. I have seen our honemeisters take back razors when a buyer had a problem and customize the edge for the user's needs.

The moral is if your beard is pretty much average even commercial razors may be shave ready a lot of the time, but if you have special needs it may rarely be shave ready. Guys with a tough beard have a special problem in that a razor that may be fine for most may be inadequate for them in that a typically honed edge may be too weak for them. The result may be similar to a nearly wire edge. They use the razor and the edge quickly disappears of may require a lot of stropping during the shave. One solution is to sacrafice a little sharpness to create an edge that's more durable. This a common trade-off in knife sharpening.

I gave the slipstones a try last night and met with mixed results. I lapped them on 600-grit sandpaper and glass, then I did 40 laps with the 4000 stone and 30 with the 8000. Then I went through the aggressive pyramid once and stropped 30 laps. (I used X-strokes throughout.)

Before I started, the razor (which I'd beveled on 2000 grit sandpaper) could shave my arm hair, although not easily. After I finished it didn't even want to do that. I did look at the edge under my microscope, and it looks much more polished and even. So I guess I'm heading in the right direction. I tried a few shaving strokes this morning and it didn't do much except scrape off lather.

Tonight maybe I'll try another pyramid or two and work on getting lighter pressure on the hones. I have a feeling I'll be sending one of my razors off to a honemeister pretty soon...

Josh, I would not do it if I were you. Since you already started honing, you need to keep on working on them instead of giving up. The problem with these stones is that they cut slowly, so you won't see results instantaneously. However, they will get you a shave-ready edge as long as you keep your cool. I use moderate pressure during most of the honing process, until I get very close and then I soften it up. What you have to start doing is just go through pyramids as you focus on keeping the pressure even and each part of the blade spending equal time on the hone.

Originally Posted by joshearl

I gave the slipstones a try last night and met with mixed results. I lapped them on 600-grit sandpaper and glass, then I did 40 laps with the 4000 stone and 30 with the 8000. Then I went through the aggressive pyramid once and stropped 30 laps. (I used X-strokes throughout.).

You don't have to do complete pyramids, so if a test shows you're close after a certain number of pyramids, on the next one you might do a few tests mid-pyramid to see if you're there.

You're problem now is that you don't know where you are, other than it's not keen. I suggest before you do anything, perform a thumbnail test to establish this. Then you'll know if the blade is dull, micro-chipped, has a wire edge, etc. I wouldn't try any pyramids until you pass the thumbnail test. Then, do 1 pyramid and test for sharpness (HHT or whatever you use). Keep repeating this until the test shows you're close, then try a conservative pyramid with a test after each rep. Stop when you pass this test and shave test.