Thread: Help Honing Near Wedge Please

I received a very nice De Pews razor the other day and have been trying to hone it over the last couple of nights. The razor is a small near wedge; I do understand that there are very few razors that are a true wedge. I also understand that being quite an old razor it may have a different quality or type of steel than my newer razors. Now, I’m no honemeister, but I have been able to keep my other razors in tip top shape over the last 8 months. The other razors are mainly 4/5 and 5/8 ¾ or full hollows. One is a Swedish steel razor. I have a Norton 4/8 and a Shapton 16k. I took part in JaNorton with two razors that I dulled and was able to bring them to shave ready with no problems, and keep them that way for the month using just the Norton 4/8. The other piece of equipment I have is a simple magnifying glass. I have no loupe or microscope. I use tape on the spine (1 later) and I use a texta (magic marker) on the edge. I test via the TNT, shaving leg hair and TPT; I don’t use the HHT.

So, first time I tried to hone this (40 circles 4k, two aggressive pyramids, 20 laps Shapton 16k) the resulting shave was very poor. Last night I spent 2 and a half hours honing it. I noted that the texta was not being removed from the toe (it has quite a spiky French point) so I kept doing circles and also x strokes until ALL traces of texta were removed. I thought that this would give an even bevel. After umpteen circles and laps I was happy with the evenness of the bevel; though it was very wide, much wider than my other razors. I carried out the TNT test wasn’t happy. So did it all again. I did the TNT again and this time was happy. I then did 20x4, 15x8, 15x4, 15x8, 10x4, 15x8, 5x4, 15x8, followed by 20 on the Shapton. I then stropped 30/70. This morning’s shave sucked. The razor is blunt. I have stubble all over my face. I suspect I didn’t set the bevel correctly.

I know this is a BIG question, but what am I doing wrong? As I said, I have no problem honing my other razors, I always knew this one, being a near wedge, would be harder, but 2 and a ½ hours with no real result tells me I’m doing something wrong.

Sorry for the long post…

I had a similar experience recently that lasted several weeks before I asked for help. At least you're smart enough to ask quickly. Add more tape. You could try just one, but I'd just go ahead and throw three layers on that bad boy and call it a day. Hope this helps.

To make it a little easier on yourself you'll have to take and tape the spine and use at least a 1000k to set the bevel. Still is time consuming, but man there's alot of steel to remove on a wedge and for me a 4000k is too slow to set the bevel.

There's a s-sheet on another site you can use to calculate the # of pieces of electrical tape you can use to figure out the angle. Glen or Lynn can really give you expert advice on honing one.

Probably have to hone with the blade at a 45 deg angle to the hone to keep the bevel small. Don't raise the spine 45deg but angle the heel 45 deg in front of the toe on the hone. If I'm incorrect on this feel free to say so. I think glens got a video on youtube where he's honing a wedge. It's under gssixgun, worth taking a peek.

Don't ask me how I know, ok I'll tell ya anyways, I tried setting the bevel on a perfect wedge with three layers using straight strokes, circles and x-strokes, bad move on my part and not paying attention, the bevel was wide and disgusting. So don't feel bad. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with it. Might end up regrinding it, but that's another day.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but I know your frustration, there's alot of metal to remove and if the blade is out of wack, now you've got more things to compound the frustration level. That's where honing experience comes into play.

My best advice, is pay attention to what the blades doing and what strokes you can use to counter act any problems. If you get frustrated put it down for awhile and clear your head. If you try to rush it, you'll end up with problems like I had.

When you sort it out, please post how you did it, I might learn something new too.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I considered using several layers of tape to create a second bevel. The edge is wide now already, as stated. I guess if I continued with one layer of tape I'd get there eventually. The width of the edge doesn't really worry me that much. I might look up honing a wedge, multiple tape layers, etc. Hopefully Lyne of Gssixgun will notice the post and give some good advice too. I think the blade could be out of wack, I think maybe I should have asked if it were honed previously with tape and if so how many layers. I must say that it's a really nice razor in really nice condition, and there's certainly nothing wrong with IT, just my ability (or lack thereof) :-)

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I suspect I didn’t set the bevel correctly.

I know this is a BIG question, but what am I doing wrong? As I said, I have no problem honing my other razors, I always knew this one, being a near wedge, would be harder, but 2 and a ½ hours with no real result tells me I’m doing something wrong.

Carl , I think you've partly answered the question in the first sentence above.
Even if the marker test shows clean, that does not mean the bevel is formed, only that bevel contact with the stone is good. The thing with wedgey grinds is that they have almost always suffered bad honing &/or convexed edges. You may need more time on that 4k. Now that you seem close I would drop the TNT & aim for a good pass on the leg or arm hair test before proceeding.

I would take a look under the scope or loupe. Sometimes when I get a rough one like this and it doesn't hit on the first try, I check out the bevel and more times than not, I actually find that there are 2 or more bevels and I need to do more circles to get it down to one nice consistent bevel across the entire blade. The marker test will not show this, but the scope will.

Have fun.

Hi Oz,
Thanks for that. I haven't actually seen any descriptions of using the marker, so I just sort of painted the edge about 2 mils thickness. The edge did seem odd when i looked at it closely, i.e. not a single clean edge, but a 'combination' of two edges sort of intermelding; it's hard to explain. So you reckon just keep going with the 4, no extra tape?

Carl, you've just described what Lynn said & what we commonly see on wedges . Several bevels from honing attempts by several people ... or just one person's several attempts

Personally I'd be on a 1 k or lower with kickstarting wedges but be patient & keep at it with the 4k if that's all you have. It's possible you will need to lap the hone a bit if the bevel is really bad.
I just did a wedge recently that 2 people had had a go at. The bevels were large & were a partial guide in achieving a good single bevel but for me a loupe is indispensable. I think I started with 3 layers of tape & stayed there but you have to take each blade on it's merits. I don't use tape as a rule.

I'd be interested to see what you end up deciding on, and the result. Please keep us updated.

Hi again everybody,
Thanks Lynn and Oz. I posted the reply to Oz, Lynn, and I think your reply was posted as I was typing the other reply! Yeah, does sound like it has several bevels if my description matches that; there is almost an 's' line or shape on the edge. I don't have a 1k hone, nor a loupe nor a microscope, so I guess it's a matter of settling down to more time on the 4k. I'll lap the hone too, as I think there may be a small buildup of metal and tape on the surface, though I am using the Nagura cleanign stone.

Thanks for all the help. I'll report back, so guys like regularjoe may get some ideas...