Thread: Escher makes edge worse after Norton 8k...why?

It's been a while since I posted here, but this is an issue that's been nagging me too much and I had to come back to ask. Can anyone tell me why a Y/G Escher would make the edge on a razor worse after the Norton 8k? When I come off the 8k (usually it takes 35-50 strokes after the Norton 4k), the edge is at a place where it can shave comfortably. Not amazingly well, but pretty good.

From there, I take the razor to my Escher and it comes out really harsh and drags on hairs. I've tried the Escher with less strokes, more strokes, less slurry, more slurry, diluting the slurry, leaving the slurry on, no slurry. Always the same.

I remember Sham telling me a long time ago that to get the most out of my Escher, I should put a softer J-Nat or coticule in between the Escher and the Norton. I did that very early on and got some amazing edges. That'd be great if I still had those stones, but I sold them, because I had seen numerous more experienced people finish razors on Eschers straight from Norton 8k's. So why am I having this problem now? Anyone have any suggestions?

Is the Escher 100% (or near as possible) flat? If that isn't an issue, then maybe too much pressure?

I would say the problem is experience. If you removed stones between the 8k and the Escher and no longer getting the edge you like it must be you need to more practice to get the result. I know some members here get on Escher right after 8k Norton so it is doable.

It isn't really a grit or hone that you have to be at, it is a "state" of the edge that everyone is talking about before you go to the Escher


Now to be honest Lynn and myself have done the one stone honing systems and both of us have used only a bevel set and then either an Escher or Thuringen to get to the end results so honestly you don't need any stones between a solid bevel set and a Escher or most any other finisher..

Many like to put a number in there ie: 8k, 10k, 12k, Coticule etc: but you just have to have a sharp shave ready edge to move up in grit

Most often just like yesterday I go either 1-3-8 Naniwa or 1-4-8 Norton and then my Escher, but I am quite confident in that 8k edge

I am one of those poor souls who has to go from an 8k norton to an escher with no stepping stone in between. So I would speculate that it is either the edge is not as finely honed off the 8k as it ought to be .... to see improvement after the y/g escher, or it may be a technique issue. Also, speculating again, it may be your expectations ? All I know from my own experience is that I make sure I'm getting a DFS after the 8k alone before I move up in grit.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

To add some more info, it isn't flatness or honing pressure (I've tried light, very light, and no pressure). I can get pretty solid shaves off of my 8k edge, too. Again, the 8k edge is not as amazing as those perfect feeling Escher edges, but it is very smooth on the face, cuts hair easily, etc...

The issue isn't that I'm not getting anything out of the Escher. It's that the Escher is making things worse. I'm wondering what you guys would recommend I pay attention to in order to change that.

HUH

Honestly I am a bit stumped,,, tried other razors ???

Lap the Escher hard and and then smooth back up ????

Originally Posted by heirkb

Thanks for the responses everyone.

To add some more info, it isn't flatness or honing pressure (I've tried light, very light, and no pressure). I can get pretty solid shaves off of my 8k edge, too. Again, the 8k edge is not as amazing as those perfect feeling Escher edges, but it is very smooth on the face, cuts hair easily, etc...

The issue isn't that I'm not getting anything out of the Escher. It's that the Escher is making things worse. I'm wondering what you guys would recommend I pay attention to in order to change that.

So you've gotten good shaves off the 8k alone, and you've gotten shaves with "perfect feeling Escher edges". Is this new phenomenon of the Escher making things worse happening with more than one razor ? Anything changed in the routine ? If it is with one razor maybe go back to the beginning and start from square 1 ?

I only have 2 razors now (I know, blasphemy), but I remember having this issue in the past with other razors. I only got those perfect feeling edges when I would go from 8k to some intermediary stone to Escher.

I have a similar issue with going from my Norton 8k to my Ozuku from Maksim. I've seen members here (like holli4pirating) get amazing edges going from an 8k shave ready edge to a hard J-Nat and I haven't had luck there either.

I know all this sounds like my 8k edge might be the culprit. Thing is, I've shaved with an 8k edge from more experienced guys here and mine held up against there's. I must be doing something stupid on the finishers.

EDIT: I'm going to lap the Escher, kill the edge on the razor, and start again from Shapton 1k to Norton 4k to Norton 8k.

I was having a similar problem with one of my razors, and in the end it all goes back to the bevel not being set as well as I had thought. That being said, that particular razor just won't get sharp for me no matter what I do..... so it _could_ always be the razor.