Thread: Anyone have experience with CTS-XHP

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

I'm interested in seeing how it compares to standard steels as well. I know perfectly well I can get a good razor from pretty much any old simple high-carbon steel, but that's about as exciting as generic bakelite scales. Nice to get something different, and even better to get something outstanding.

Although I agree that using something different is nice but I think by jigging around with steel formulas you are only likely to get an incremental improvement normally. You never know though till you try and there is an outside possibility to get something outstanding in the process. OTH sometimes you hit a point in development where good enough is just that good enough and to go further is just gilding the Lilly.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Although I agree that using something different is nice but I think by jigging around with steel formulas you are only likely to get an incremental improvement normally. You never know though till you try and there is an outside possibility to get something outstanding in the process. OTH sometimes you hit a point in development where good enough is just that good enough and to go further is just gilding the Lilly.

Bob

I am not disagreeing with you, but it seems that tempered opinions ought to be expected. Mr. Harner was impressed with the stuff and the OP seemed similarly so, and thus sought out opinions of folks with experience. Seems the disdain comes mostly from people who have little or no experience with the stuff but a general grudge against modern marketed steels. If it's just iconoclasm, it seems misdirected.

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

I am not disagreeing with you, but it seems that tempered opinions ought to be expected. Mr. Harner was impressed with the stuff and the OP seemed similarly so, and thus sought out opinions of folks with experience. Seems the disdain comes mostly from people who have little or no experience with the stuff but a general grudge against modern marketed steels. If it's just iconoclasm, it seems misdirected.

Trouble is I don't believe that particular steel is in general use in the making of straight razor blades so there would be very few with experience using it for SR shaving. Personally, I have the limited experience of just over a year of SR shaving with an assortment of some 30 odd razors from various countries made with both carbon and stainless steels. The actual composition of those steels I have no clue about. I can say that all have given me close comfortable 3 pass shaves on a daily basis. I would be hard pressed to discern a huge difference in shave quality between them. I do like my stainless ones simply for ease of maintenance not that the carbon ones have been buggers to keep free of rust.

Add to that I am old enough not to be too swayed by the use of the words "wonder", "super" or "new and improved" in describing any new product. I am open to proof that a new product is an improvement though. It would have to be proven to be a big improvement, not incremental, for me to rush out and buy it. That is not a grudge just being practical.

Bob

At this point in time, I believe XHP is not widely used for shaving, thus the question seeking anyone with experience.

I'd grant that there is a large populous of those who feel "good enough" is. However, if I never experience "better" how can I dismiss it? "How much will I be willing to spend in search of 'better'?", and "how much 'better' should I reasonably expect?", are questions everyone may answer differently.

I don't need a car that can drive 3x the posted speed limit, but I'm not about to deny anyone else from it if they want it, and I'm quite thankful there are producers out there willing to experiment

I guess it's like hones. Some guys are satisfied with a Norton 8K finish, while others seek a collection of high priced stones in search of 'better'.

Honestly I like the way Bob just put that... Well written BTW

I have Honed and Shaved a few razors, and in my experience there are only four types that haven't past muster

#1. Pakistani/Chinese blades that either will not take an edge or hold an edge suitable for shaving, basically RSO's (razor shaped objects)

#2. A very few "Super Steels" from custom makers that were more impressed with the steel then the fact that there is a delicate balance between the ability to hone the edge -vs- the durability of the edge, and thus created a RSO..

#3. New razors that were made by clueless knife makers that don't have any idea of the geometry that makes a Straight Razor different then a knife, again an RSO

#4. Vintage razors that are way past their prime either by geometry, absuse, or neglect


Other then that, everything Hones and Shaves quite well, so take that for what it is worth

All it would take to get comments from people with experience with XHP is to convince a modern manufacturer to put out a plain Jane XHP 5/8-6/8 sized razor in the $200 range. On that basis I sure would not be adverse to trying one on spec. If they are only available on a custom basis that is a horse of a different colour.

Bob

We have seen some pretty good Stainless in the ATS 34 and CPM 154 that has been used successfully in making straight razors. I have also seen a Stainless with a Damascus pattern and so long as the pattern was more horizontal, it works great for straight razors. I have honed a ton of the ones I have mentioned and own a few still. They are easy to hone and are very nice shavers. How does the steel being discussed here compare with these?

Thanks

its not a magic super steel what makes it better compared to the other SS options are 2 fold one is that ist powder steel. making the alloy more finely dispersed in the bar as been proven that cpm154 is a finer saver most the time then say D2 or 440c since those 2 are ingot steels. XHP is lower in total carbide formers then cpm154 so it can be hardened to 62rc withought getting overly hard to handle on the hones and also keeping it from being a brittle or flaky edge. as of right now i have not found a SS that is smoother or easyer to grind/hone.

this is not to say there are not great carbonsteel options and i still use tripple melt 52100 as my go to carbon steel. i have used everything from 1084 to O1 and even cpm3v

i might be able to get a few made from the hart steel guys to get more tester reviews tho im not sure they could make the 200$ price point. all i coudl see is if theey would even consider the option

Originally Posted by L R Harner

...XHP is lower in total carbide formers then cpm154...

I dunno...the specs show chromium molybdenum and vanadium in XHP and CPM154 has less chromium and more molybdenum and no vanadium. XHP also has a higher amount of carbon and without carbon, carbides don't form on the alloys. I can see the vanadium refining and pinning the carbides in a smaller form, but all that chromium is fairly aggressive as a large grain carbide former all by itself. Molybdenum makes for more stable carbides, less likely to grow the grain, so the advantage should be toward CPM 154.

If it hones well and shaves well, then it will be a good shaving steel. Right now it's not commonly used so a lot of this is subjective. In the end, whether we are trading off hardness and toughness, or grain size and carbide formation as they feed into the toughness equation, it's too soon to tell. More sampling time and experience is needed.

mike since this is a passaround i woudl be more then happy to let you run it around the hones and your face i ll take any and all feedback i can get
i jsut know that with what i have in my shop and my limited number of hones that im getting a much smoother shave vs the cpm154 and that was only taking the test shaver to a norton 8k and crom ox and leather bench strop