Thread: Anyone have experience with CTS-XHP

I apologize in advance for appearing bellicose or arrogant, but I'm not sure what a bunch of bromidic "simple vs alloy" generalizations have to do with what the OP is was looking for.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Not any of his blades, but I have used other super steel razors.
I use one of those steels myself for wife-proof kitchen knives.

So you don't really have relevant experience. Your kitchen knife is not really relevant unless it is the same material. Just calling multiple materials "super steels" does not make them the same.

Firstly, my remark is about the material itself. Carbon steel is cheap, easy to work by anyone, and easy to heat treat. Supersteels are expensive, harder to work, you can't even forge some of them, and heat treatment is not something you can do without at least a semi professional setup. In terms working it as a material, carbon steel is a clear win.

Not every maker is using a primitive backyard or garage forge, and quite a few makers are happy to send blades off to be heat treated professionally. Yep modern steels can be a bit more expensive...but custom razors are generally not bargain-basement deals in the first place, are they?

Then you have to look at intended use. Most of those supersteels have been designed for heavy duty work. To take one silly example: I know a guy who had a razor custom made of M4 steel, and heat treated to max hardness. If you look at what M4 was meant for, you'll see that such a razor would be almost impossible to hone (and indeed proved to be just that). M4 is ideal for heavy duty chisels for high speed steel lathes, but its extreme wear resistance makes it near impossible to hone.

How is this related to XHP? Again, using the word "supersteel" for different materials doesn't make them the same. 304 and AEB-L are both "stainless", and A2 and O1 are both "tool steel".

Mr. Harner said XHP hones and grinds well. Mentioning an unrelated steel with an unrelated problem doesn't seem too helpful.

Third, a very important factor for razors is grain size, and in most supersteels, the goal is still to end up with the properties of supersteel and the grain size of carbon steel. In other words, in terms of possible thinness of the edge, carbon steel is still the gold standard.

AEB-L. Also worthwhile to repeat that you're not saying anything about the steel this thread was initially intended to discuss.

The generalized assertions are probably reasonable, but do you know about any of the properties of PM steels that are thought suitable for razors, or just the ones that are heavily stereotyped in knifemaking?

In the end, a razor is a tool with a very delicate edge, but with virtually zero need for any other properties than edge retention and small grain size. Being stainless is not that big an advantage for anyone who properly maintains his razors. Being tough is almost irrelevant because it's not a prybar or some other tool dealing with shearing forces. Being very wear resistant is even less desirable because wear resistance means it is much harder to hone. The only things important for razors are fine grain size and a hardness that is high enough for edge retention but not high enough to become brittle.

Are these general statements not obvious?

In terms of material, super steels are at best equivalent in the areas where it matters, and bring only improvements where it doesn't. For the purpose of straight razors, that is. Not talking about heavy duty tools. That doesn't mean I think supersteels are bad. I just think that for the purpose of making razors, they don't add anything that is important enough to offset the increased cost and bother of working them.

Still not seeing anything relevant to XHP.

As a follow up to the topic.

Thanks for the contributions, and thanks for allowing me this opportunity to hone and test this material (it is not "new" BTW, I ground my first XHP blade about 3 years ago...guys in the world of knives like it, but it is hardly "news" to anyone in my circles).

Count me among those who were skeptical. I now have experience with a (CTS-XHP) blade treated and ground specifically for shaving. FWIW, I was not highly impressed with XHP as a knife blade steel.

I am thankful that I had this opportunity to separate the wheat from the chaff (so to speak)...because assumptions and notions apparently fall short of real world experience.

It may not be for everyone, but I'd urge not to discount the material based on experiences with other (non-similar) materials.

Respectfully,
Ken Ewers

PS if anyone has any specific questions public or private, feel free to contact me. I am not selling or producing any razors (for what that is worth).

Ken

Probably just goes to show that the needs of a knife user and those of a SR user can be two different needs. Even only being 3 years old it is still a recent development that has not made it into use in production SRs yet for whatever reasons. If it were there would probably people out there who like the shave off current types of SS in common use that may find XHP to their liking also.

Bob

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

...Still not seeing anything relevant to XHP.

I'm not sure why this is irritating. I would take the whole thread in context. A razor has been made from XHP. It hones and shaves. It's being passed around for testing. Data is being gathered about it specifically in the razor context.

As one of many steels, it's seen limited use as a razor steel. There are not many steel "experts" on this site; discussion of steels is not the primary emphasis here regardless; it is an interesting subject for some of us, and it is natural to compare a new steel to those the folks here are more familiar with, so that a relative comparison is available to those who might not have the context to measure it. I would at least offer people a chance to absorb information they can first, then extend knowledge into new territory.

What I would personally prefer is a range of good working materials for new makers to select from without any particular bias toward any one special steel. Good knife steels do not necessarily make the transition to razors. Time will tell if XHP makes the grade. To make that judgement on the results of only a few faces would be a threat to the validity and reliability, on several levels, of any information gained.

Thanks for the discussion guys. I am always interested in topics having to do with different steels. It is always amazing to me how two different razors with the same configuration and size can shave so differently. Nice to learn more as time goes on.


Thanks,
Richard

Richard

It is interesting. Many (rightly so) focus on honing and (in particular) finishing hones to fine tune their blades and achieve the ultimate. I think blade material/metallurgy is a similar facet of this hobby and ultimately, the shave experience.

It is stated by many here that different finishers are better suited to different blades. I must ask, if it is not a result of metallurgy, from where does this result stem?

Further, I do not believe we have found the best yet, and I certainly have a hard time accepting that no worthwhile advancements have been made in metallurgy (that suit straight razors).

I enjoy this pursuit, and I think many others do also