Japanese Kitchen Knives

**Potato42** · 11-23-2010, 08:58 PM

I would take the advice from Mainaman and DwarvenChef to heart, they know what they're talking about and have the posts on another forum to back it up.

I have been addicted to Japanese blades for quite some time myself and more recently started thinning my collection. This got me to really focus on what I find important in each knife. I would say what makes me really love a knife is not entirely quantifiable, but has a lot to do with "bonding" with the tool. My collection currently includes carbon steel, stainless, chef knives and cleavers, western and wa handles. There isn't really any one unifying trait amongst them but I love them all because each one is a useful tool in my hands (no drawer queens!)

When giving advice to someone about what knife to buy I try to be honest and straightforward about it. It's just about impossible to buy the "perfect" knife the first time, or even the second or third time. Even if you had the opportunity to try it, you don't get the full experience you would using it for a few weeks, sharpening it, and caring for it in general. The best you can hope to do is narrow down your options somewhat. The great news is that almost any japanese blade you choose will wow you even if it doesn't fit perfectly.

I would suggest the first place to start is budget, How much do you want to spend? You can get a decent chefs knife for under $100, or go straight for the top right away and drop 10x that. The second place to start would be knife style. Finally you should probably choose stainless vs carbon steel for the blade.

Budget is probably the easiest thing to figure out but I've read posts from a great many people that say "price is no object" or the like. The thing is, you could spend $500 on your very first knife and hate it, or you could buy 3 at $150 each and find one you absolutely love. I began in the typical $100-$200 range when I started and almost all of my more recent purchases have been in the $300+ range before they were customized with exotic handles. I got a feel for what I liked and didn't about different knives, and made future choices based on that. One thing that really softened the blow for me is the fact that the knives I have acquired retained a significant value when I decided to resell them. Most of the time I have sold knives for 70-100% of what I paid for them.

Most people assume chefs knife (or gyuto, which means cow sword) for general purpose, although the chinese chefs knife (cleaver) is an excellent option for general purpose cooking as well. The santoku is also a common knife nowadays, but is little different than the chefs knife apart from typically being shorter. I own both chefs knives and cleavers and my personal preference is the cleaver. Keep in mind we're talking about a thin slicing type cleaver, in japanese terms it would be a #6. It's easy to find also a #7 which is a bit thicker and not quite as good for slicing but a bit more robust for difficult product. The chinese do not use the same naming conventions typically so you would just look for a thin slicing cleaver. If you're interested in seeing what a cleaver can do check out the beginning of "Eat Drink Man Woman" here on youtube YouTube - Eat Drink Man Woman Opening Scene

**DwarvenChef** · 11-24-2010, 07:56 AM

I bought the movie "Eat Drink Man Woman" just to have that intro

and it turned out to be a good movie

Cooking with Curtis a few times really tought me about polishing the back bevel, even if your edge is a bit rough the polish will still let you cut very smoothly.

**Stubear** · 11-24-2010, 12:35 PM

I really like Kin Knives which you can get here in the UK.

I've used them a few times at various fairs and stuff as they usually have a stand there and they seem pretty good to my unexperienced eye.

**Potato42** · 11-24-2010, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

I bought the movie "Eat Drink Man Woman" just to have that intro

and it turned out to be a good movie

Definitely! There is a good bit more cooking than just the opening scene, but what the movie is really about is family. I'd love to see it in high Def!

**richmondesi** · 11-24-2010, 04:33 PM

So, the price of the knife isn't that important to me. If I could hit a home-run guaranteed, I'd pay whatever it cost to do it. However, just like razors, I know that's not likely. Also, I'm more of a carbon guy in general.

I never considered getting a clever like that, but those vids rocked

**Potato42** · 11-24-2010, 05:05 PM

The great thing about a cleaver is you can get a great one for around $50 to try out. My introduction started with a CCK 1302 similar to this one here CCK Small Cleaver and I still own and use it frequently. Given that Mark at CKTG has them they are much easier than they once used to be to get a hold of. Highly recommended to try one out, and if you don't like it, you're only out pocket change compared to most of the nicer knives out there.

For chefs knives;

For Carbon The Hiromoto AS series has a near cult following, and the edge develops a beautiful patina in contrast with the stainless steel sides. Since the edge is what does the cutting, this series should always be treated as carbon steel.

Another easy winner is a Watanabe blue steel gyuto, most commonly 240mm. This is a taller, thicker (heftier) chefs knife that will still fall through product. Superb craftsmanship. Keep in mind that among gyutos you have the laserbeam crowd, and the mighty guys. This is a "mighty" knife due to the thickness and heft. The edge profile is really what matters anyway and this knife is dead on.

Another superb craftsman is Devin "Hoss" Thomas. Known worldwide for his damascus steel, he has more recently started producing his own knives, including kitchen knives. He can make a custom knife in damascus or high carbon or stainless, but as with most custom knives they can be pricey. A great option if you know what you want. He also makes a very affordable standard knife that is highly regarded. I have never seen one in person so I'll let you do the research there if you're interested.

If I had the money to buy more knives, my next one would be a custom Devin Thomas damascus cleaver.

There are many more fine knives out there, but these are a few that I would highly recommend and are readily available. Many more custom knife makers have proven to produce excellent products, but as with all remarkable craftsmen they are so in demand they can't keep up. Butch Harner is one, as well as Bob Kramer. You might find their work for sale used, but they are booked up for custom orders at the current time (as far as I am aware). Butch is of course a regular here with his razors so if interested in his fine work I'd contact him directly.

- Sean

**richmondesi** · 11-24-2010, 06:13 PM

Sean,

Thanks for the specific recommendations. That's perfect. Recently, I befriended a custom knife maker local to me, but I've not seen any kitchen knives that he's done. He's offered to let me work in his shop, and he's going to teach me how to forge and how to do damascus as well. I may end up making a few of my own

These knives are as interesting, if not more so than razors

**Traskrom** · 11-24-2010, 09:12 PM

I would suggest to define what you will do with this knifes, fish, meat, vegetables and so on and than look for knife which will serve you better. Most Japanese knifes created for it's own purpose and seldom universal. And don't forget, kougei knifes typically different than mass production knifes

that's kougei stamp

Few my knifes, I have about 15 of them

Morimoto hamono kiritsuke 240 mm, shirogami 2, hon-kasumi, kougei,

Watanabe sabaki 190 mm, aogami 2, probably the best knife for meat, so I have 2 knifes like that from him.

**richmondesi** · 11-24-2010, 09:19 PM

Traskrom,

I plan on doing everything you mentioned, and I realize that I'm going to have to get more than 1 knife to handle my needs. I am realizing that I've started down the rabbit hole, and I'm probably going to be in trouble...

FWIW, I'm going to ask for the linked CCK from my kids for Christmas

**Traskrom** · 11-24-2010, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Traskrom,

I am realizing that I've started down the rabbit hole, and I'm probably going to be in trouble...

Yep, that's for sure

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