Thread: Japanese Kitchen Knives

I've been using the Shun line, made by Kershaw, for the last for years-- and I absolutely love them. I know that for some of the purists out there these probably aren't considered 'authentic' Japanese knives, but for the price, they can't be beat. They feel great in your hand, hold a great edge, and come in a variety of styles for every task.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

ok... so we have a list of styles, what about makers?

well there lies the big dilemma.
Right now the biggest trend is good thin knife,for guyto.
Brands that are proven stainless:

Tadatsuna Inox
Suisin Inox
Konosuke HD

For petty a simple MAC PKF-50 will do.

Ynagiba, well this is really broad.
For entry level I would go with Yoshihiro
Japanese sushi chef knife,Yanagi YOSHIHIRO KASUMI 300 - eBay (item 390263541387 end time Nov-24-10 18:58:45 PST)
they go for ~120-130
if you want more branded one, Masamoto KK series or Aritsugu, Mizuno, Kikuichi etc etc. The min length you nee to go for is 270mm optimal is considered to be 300mm.
sources to check out are, chefknives to go, japneseknifeimports (John is in Japan right now so he can offer you nice ones and bring with him back)
For Deba I use this one:
The Epicurean Edge: Japanese and European professional chefs knives
it works great for me.

I think I have some legitimate commentary to provide on the topic of Japanese style knives.

Single (one-sided) or double-bevel (double-sided) knife edges... European or Japanese. Well, dedicated, traditional Japanese blades will have their own thing but regular European/American-style blades will be double bevel. Honesukis, which are marketed as being good at boning breasts and thighs of poultry, have been found to be great at filleting stuff and removing sliverskin and fabricating meats and all that great stuff beyond their advertised purposes. So, YMMV. I like thinner blades and smoother carbon steels that take a great edge quickly and easily.

My Shun Classic line 8" chef knife handles so well, is so balanced and easy to flip over that it takes on a personality of its own in my hands, I find myself doing things with it, not working with foods mind you, but just fingering it, that I can't and don't intuitively do with all sorts of other cutlery. It almost assumes a mind of its own in my hands, it's so ergonomically balanced... it's crazy! That's why I have to speak up and post about it. It is a bolster that does not extend to the heel of the blade, which is very irritating to those who value the true life of the blade edge. I have small hands and really appreciate the Japanese knives (I have a 7-inch gyuto from Tojiro's DP line and enjoy that very well, though their placement in the six-meter loop (a mathematical formula) is not as lively as Shun's 8" (though is curiously not staining despite it's smooth higher-grit honeability)) so I'm kind of biased towards them, but must leap to the somewhat commercial, mass-produced Shun knives. I really like them. Also, I've noticed, in the Japanese-knife/culinary forums that some people actually like the VG10 (core steel) knives at a rockwell hardness of 61-62 because they feel they can maintain enough regular contact with their honing abilities. There is the scratchiness of the still stainless metal (chromium creates, by my impression, larger carbide structures) but it is quite a smooth steel and hones up to very smooth levels very easily. I love my VG1 (Calphalon "Katana" line) and VG10 (Shun "Classic" line) knives. 7" santoku (VG1), 5.5" honesuki (VG1), 3.5" paring (VG10), 8" Chef (VG10), 6" chef VG1 (Calphalon Katana).

These are the levels of hardness of knives that are sure to sustain whatever horrific evil crap that may be dished out to them in the chaotic environment of the kitchen. Wives, guests, family, friends/foes (you know how it goes), etc. they will all subject these kitchen tools to the best and worst. You can't control everything. I've put both the VG1 and VG10 to the test. I've used my Swedish high-carbon cobalt steel-cored Tojiro DP to the test, too, but not like the VG1-cored Calphalon "Katana" series or Shun "Classic" series, so will not comment on that. They're relatively soft but qualitatively of a different nature than the regular German or American stainless steel cutlery. I love my Henckels Friodur 8" chef knife, but it is relegated to being a meat knife on my plastic cutting board, which speaks well of its edge retention ability. I love my Wusthofs and Analons and Calphalon stainless, but they are not my major knives anymore (Analon's ice-hardened line is comparable to similarly ice-hardened Friodur Henckels). I use the stamped (Twin Signature if you must know) Henckels Friodur because it can withstand the slight abuse (oh yeah, I'm good...) of the hard plastic cutting board for meat fabrication.

I have experience with calphalon stainless, katana; shun classic; wusthof; henckels international & full friodur; Analon; Tojiro DP; various miscellanea from other people's homes (as a free-lance sharpener). I can't condone the purchasing of a lot of different cutlery, but the ones I've bought and used... in this 21st century... oh yeah, can't complain.

I can honestly say that for people with small hands the 7" santoku movement is a nice entrance to a blade with a long flat. Make of this what you will but my conscience is clear.

My normal rule is that stuff endorsed by "celebrities" is usually crap. Is that true of the Kramer Shun series? I'm assuming it is, relatively speaking of course.

Like I said, though, that's an assumption...

I love the shun classic line and own about a dozen pieces all are flawless. I'm sure there is a better deal out there for single pieces but I like a brand where I know I will be able to get a full line up, and that I won't have to hunt extensively to find the piece I want. Plus the pattern welded steel is amazingly beautiful, and makes each piece a little unique. I've seen the new hand hammered shun too which looks pretty nice too if that's your cup of tea.

As with Mainaman, I've got a long background with Japanese kitchen knives. I've pretty much fully converted to them as I can't use western knives any longer without getting really annoyed with one

However I am also on the otherside of the spectrum as far as steels are concerned. Personaly I think carbon steel knives are best to go with as they force you to take care of your, generally, higher end knives. Stainless knives are not damaged by neglect as easaly as a carbon steel knife.

As for Shun... YIKES... but let me explain If all you want is a knife that has better steel than a typical western blade and you like the looks of Shun's, they are not a BAD way to go. And take advantage of their sharpening service, I know I'll never try to sharpen one again ARRGGHH!!! It's not a bad knife on it's own, can you get a better knife for less money?? Hell yes you can, or you can get a simular knife and a few stones to keep the new knife in shape.

Japanese knives have a bit of a learning curve to them as well. You need to change a few of your knife skills to match the construction of the Japanese knife ideals. Western knife edges are ground to a lower angle due to softer steel. Japanese edges are harder and can take a much lower angle, that makes for thinner edges that don't stand up to the abuses that western edges can endure. An example would be a typical roll cut/chop motion. With a western edge you can simply push and pull with a rotery wrist and elbow motion just about any way you want. Try that with a Japanese edge and you will have a chipped up edge in minutes (yup experience here ) Yes you can do that same motion with a japanese blade but you have to be carefull to not twist the blade or change the rotating angles while cutting.

They are not big changes to the knife skills but they are important, think of it as refining your skills to a more presice tool.

One bonus is that many of the stones you need to maintain your razors can be used on knifes as well

Global knives are fairly popular in the UK. My daughter's partner worked as a chef before managing restaurants. I notice that he has a few Global knives. They do seem to have a nice balance.

Don't forget the Masahiro knives. Superb!

I've been using Japanese, single-bevel knives for quite a few years. At this point, I'm ready to go back to German edges (and steel). Many of the Japanese knives are made with extremely hard steel, which means they're a bear to sharpen. The single-bevel edge (actually, a misnomer, since the "flat" side also has a slight bevel) is tricky to maintain. Also, the single-bevel causes the knife to "drift" in that direction, which can make it difficult to get a straight cut on thick foods.

But hey, they'll shave as well as a straight!

I've been looking for a nice set of kitchen knives.

I've looked around some and I keep coming across the theirs issard knives.
Yes they make nice knives too. They look good but for the price would rather have some reviews first instead of just buying them.

Originally Posted by basil

I've been looking for a nice set of kitchen knives.

I've looked around some and I keep coming across the theirs issard knives.
Yes they make nice knives too. They look good but for the price would rather have some reviews first instead of just buying them.

Sabatier is the trade name that TI leased out to make their knives, if I remember correctly, so not all Sabatier are TI knives. And not all of them are very good. They are typical of the standard western chef knife. Thick spined, softer steel, and double beveled at 50/50 deg. The good ones are good, reasonably good in many areas and worth getting. But they are hard to tell from the crap.

As for newer Sabatier knives I'm less familier with, again I stick to the older carbon steel ones. I always check out the ones I come across in used shops