Thread: # 14

Originally Posted by Phrank

Interesting bonitomio, couple of posts up, you can see the photo of my clearly marked #14 JMP Filarmonica...and it's a 7/8...that's what confuses me!!

I might be wrong in my suspicions, but how are you measuring?



Filarmonica and most of the "14" manufacturers used the "old way" of measuring. These days are more dubious, with the "new way" being used as a matter of practicality or simply because some users aren't aware of the older method. Although it might just be the angle, the razor you posted earlier appears to have a bit of wear, particularly at the toe--this would explain its being a "14", yet having a 7/8" spine-toe width. If my wear assessment is correct, you might find it to measure just 6/8" from the honing bevel to the cutting edge. Whereas a truly NOS "14" would be appropriately measured to 7/8" from the honing bevel to the cutting edge, and perhaps 15/16" or 8/8" from the spine to the edge.

Originally Posted by Phrank

Interesting bonitomio, couple of posts up, you can see the photo of my clearly marked #14 JMP Filarmonica...and it's a 7/8...that's what confuses me!!

I think Birnando, whose post is above mine, nails it, "variations simply to big.."

Yes there are many variations within the "family" of No.14 razors which I also subscribe to the theory that not all the No.14s came from the same German factory.
I hope to one day be able to submit a selection of razors (only those that are not worth restoring or keeping!) for metallurgical analysis for steel types, differences in temper etc to see how similar or different they are.
So far I have only anecdotal and circumstantial clues which only suggests an answer to this riddle without any firm conclusions.....this will take a large wad of notes to do but it would be great to find answers.
Phrank the photo of your JMP doesn´t show up for me in your listing. Can you check if its working?

With your indulgence I thought I would post another Filarmonica JMP No.14 razor which to my experience has a unique patina from being stored for many years with a mineral oil coating which has "fossilized" and left deep blue, purple and burgundy tints that show themselves from various angles in the light.

If you recall what diesel or oil steaks looks like on the water in sunshine you will get the idea.

After much agonizing I chose to cut and polish only the tang and tail while leaving the rest of the razor as is.
To date this is the only 1900s razor that I have opted to keep its patina rather than have it completely polished.
The photos don´t do justice to what its like in hand:-

https://plus.google.com/photos/11028...CIy3sqf_oJD1Qw

Originally Posted by wrl

I might be wrong in my suspicions, but how are you measuring?

IME there is not an old -vs- new here, it is simply two different ways of measurement...

I have never found a rhyme or reason to it, it crosses time, country, and maker, ie: regardless of how I have tried to define it I have found an exception to that rule

ps: I have found NOS razors in the box, with a size clearly marked that fit neither way of measuring.. Using what you have defined as the "new way" and clearly stating that it in top of spine to bottom of edge is IMHO the most accurate, but it might not match what is marked on the box or the razor.. For some time I was convinced that the size was an approximate of what the razor would be after the first honing

Here's a pic of my Revisor 8/8 with my JMP #14, I know the #14 hasn't been modified, but it is clearly a 7/8...it's also a longer blade as you can see. Interesting!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

IME there is not an old -vs- new here, it is simply two different ways of measurement...

I have never found a rhyme or reason to it, it crosses time, country, and maker, ie: regardless of how I have tried to define it I have found an exception to that rule

Out of curiosity, have you found any unhoned 14s specifically of similar profile to Filarmonica, Palmera, etc that present exceptions or is that a general observation of vintage razors? While I can certainly agree with variations across the world's brands and users, it's my experience that the specific set of razors to which we're referring tend to follow the so-called "old way" as a rule. However, you've been at this longer than me and I welcome your insight.

Thanks Phrank,
I can say pretty confidently from the edge profile that your JMP has been used and is not its original 8/8 (edge to spine) width.

I don't know,

I honestly gave up trying to figure out model numbers/names it really messed with my slightly OCD brain so I finally just let it go..

There for quite awhile I tried to track them all as they came in for honing/restore but all my thoughts of a pattern kept being disproved

Originally Posted by bonitomio

Thanks Phrank,
I can say pretty confidently from the edge profile that your JMP has been used and is not its original 8/8 (edge to spine) width.

Interesting...so you're suggesting it may have been bread-knifed so to speak, cut down, I'll have to have another look, would have loved this to have been an 8/8.

Originally Posted by Phrank

Interesting...so you're suggesting it may have been bread-knifed so to speak, cut down, I'll have to have another look, would have loved this to have been an 8/8.

Not cut down intentionally, if you will, just loved, used, and honed.