Thread: Why are Damascus steel razors so expensive?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

It is an indisputable fact that people who shave with high quality Damascus steel razors are cool and they can kick your ass.

or they can at least sell one and use the proceeds to hire someone to kick your ass :-)

I'm sorry if I wasn't correct on the the matter, I was going by what I was taught. The blade smith I learned from had a PHD in metallurgy, perhaps what he say was more theory then actuality of how the metal should behave and maybe he was just fluffing up the craft as well.

I didn't mean that sellers are trying to pass fake damascus off as the real deal, I was just saying that you can by blades with a pattern etched onto them for less then for a real damascus. Every fake damascus blade I have seen being sold never tried to sell itself as a real damascus blade.

Yes it is much easier and simpler to just get the type of steel one can get today, but I wasn't talking about what was easier, I was talking about the process involved and what was thought would happen by doing such a process.

Hmmm, you might have a hard time convincing a Japanese blade smith that layering their blade to 100,000 plus layers isn't going to strengthen it in any way. Wouldn't just removing the impurities from a blade make it stranger? By today's standard it is over kill, but if my life deepened in me having a well made sword I would grab a blade forged by a master smith then one made with 1095 steel and a grinder. If modern items could out perform items made long ago then Mach razors would be far superior to vintage straight razors.

As far as armour goes you will be surprised at how light it is. A 15th century German Gothic harness weighs about 57 lbs. A standard solder today carries about 55 lbs in gear.

Originally Posted by LeeringCorpse

If modern items could out perform items made long ago then Mach razors would be far superior to vintage straight razors.

wait, you don't mean to say that communication through smoke signals is better than through an ipod

ok. i've got that out of my system. i'm new and that damuscus TI looked cool. But after looking at it some more, the pattern didn't look that interesting and if it's not gonna shave ALOT better, &*%@(* it.

so, i've already got a DOVO 41, which is a stainless steel one, i believe. I think it shaves nice, but what do I know? Don't have anything to compare to it.

so, i think i'm gonna get a TI carbon steel one. forgot the model number at this point. it's a 5/8, about $170

i'm not quite ready to get into vintage at this time. too new. don't now what to get.

yes, i've already got good (to me) shaving gear. got a Rooney super badger hair ( yes I've tried cheaper brushes, didn't like 'em, Got me some Trummpers Sandlewood shave cream (yes I've tried cheaper cream soap. They are ok. I like the Proaso and Col. COnk Amber) Got a beginers strop from Ken Rup. It's good to learn on. Already nicked it some. (ok, alot) Rough side has got that green stuff on it (Crom Ox?)

Jumped the gun a little on the honing stuff. Got a Norton 4k/8k combo and a Belgian Coti stone. (That's probably an 8k grit, right? so it might have been pointless to spend the 100$ an that since the Norton is already an 8k)

I say I jumped the gun a little on the honing stuff because maybe, after more research, I should have just got the Nawa (sp?) 4k,8k,12k stones, but I didn't.

And I'll be honest with you, while I appreciate all the honing advice I'm finding on the internet, I'm a little overwhelmed and sick of it.

I got my stones, good or bad, and I'm gonna try to learn to hone. I'm sure I'll screw up, but that is how I learned best.

thanks for listening

All well and good, and I can understand the expense.
But how functional is patern welded steel for razors?
Surely some compromise on heat treatment must occur for one of the tool steels?
If you have to much pearlite structure on the edge, will your face feel it?
Pretty and great for knifes, maybe I'm wrong??
Feel free to correct me.

Deckard

Originally Posted by Toplin

Jumped the gun a little on the honing stuff. Got a Norton 4k/8k combo and a Belgian Coti stone. (That's probably an 8k grit, right? so it might have been pointless to spend the 100$ an that since the Norton is already an 8k)

I say I jumped the gun a little on the honing stuff because maybe, after more research, I should have just got the Nawa (sp?) 4k,8k,12k stones, but I didn't.

...

I got my stones, good or bad, and I'm gonna try to learn to hone. I'm sure I'll screw up, but that is how I learned best.

You've got a good set of hones. With that setup you can do pretty much anything that you will ever need to do on a razor. The abrasive particles in the coticule are actually much coarser than 8k (~12 micron IIRC), but because they're roundish instead of jagged they actually leave a much smoother and sharper edge than the smaller abrasive particles found in the 8k side of the Norton.

Devote yourself to mastering those hones, and you'll be a happy shaver for decades to come.

Originally Posted by Deckard

But how functional is patern welded steel for razors?
Surely some compromise on heat treatment must occur for one of the tool steels?
If you have to much pearlite structure on the edge, will your face feel it?

These are good questions Deckard. Re-read my earlier comment about comparing monosteels to PW steels. For similar carbon content, using similar heat treatment methods, and the same edge geometry, a monosteel will function the same as a PW steel or vice versa. The only difference is aesthetic.

My most common recipe is 1095 and 15N20. The 15N20 is the same as 1075 with 2% nickel. Once welded I have a steel that is about 0.85% carbon, right near the eutectic point. Once carbon diffusion has completed, for all intents and purposes, by the time the billet has been at welding heat four times, it is essentially a monosteel with stripes of nickel running through it. I don't have to compromise anything with this combination.

As to feeling pearlite vs. martensite with your face...well, it's tough enough figuring those differences with a microscope. If the edge geometry is the same on a monosteel blade and PW blade, even though un-hardened, they will probably cut hair to the same degree. They will not cut for as long a period of time before requiring a trip to the hones as a hardened blade will.

I remember Spazola making a visit with some nice frameback blades and, if my memory serves me well, he reported them cutting quite well. Maybe they weren't perfect, but they were shavers. He can correct me if I got it wrong. When we Rockwell'd the blades they were only Rc50, far below what is typically accepted as a hardened blade.

That's the problem, there is a range of acceptable variables. In the end, it depends on the person using it to determine if a blade is superior or not. It remains highly subjective. There would not be so many different kinds of razors and steels if "the One" really was the best.

Originally Posted by mparker762

You've got a good set of hones. With that setup you can do pretty much anything that you will ever need to do on a razor. The abrasive particles in the coticule are actually much coarser than 8k (~12 micron IIRC), but because they're roundish instead of jagged they actually leave a much smoother and sharper edge than the smaller abrasive particles found in the 8k side of the Norton.

Devote yourself to mastering those hones, and you'll be a happy shaver for decades to come.

i'm gonna try my best with the hones..

wonder if i'm gonna mess up my nice dovo??

Originally Posted by Toplin

i'm gonna try my best with the hones..

wonder if i'm gonna mess up my nice dovo??

Toplin, what mparker762 said is on the money as it usually is. Those hones are just fine. If I was you I would look for some cheaper vintage razors in decent condition and learn to hone on those. That way you won't have to worry about messing the Dovo up.

As far as Damascus and the TI. It is a subtle pattern unlike the customs from Mastro Livi, Joe Chandler or Robert Williams to name a few. After you've been at it awhile and you're sure you will stick with it look for one of the customs in the classifieds. They come up every so often and usually sell for a couple of hundred less than when they are new.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Toplin, what mparker762 said is on the money as it usually is. Those hones are just fine. If I was you I would look for some cheaper vintage razors in decent condition and learn to hone on those. That way you won't have to worry about messing the Dovo up.

As far as Damascus and the TI. It is a subtle pattern unlike the customs from Mastro Livi, Joe Chandler or Robert Williams to name a few. After you've been at it awhile and you're sure you will stick with it look for one of the customs in the classifieds. They come up every so often and usually sell for a couple of hundred less than when they are new.

thanks jimmy

that's just it. I don't like the "custom" look of the Damascus steel. I thought Damascus Steel had AMAZING shaving abilities above and beyond stainless steel and carbon steel. I kinda liked the TI exactly because it 's custom look was subtle. The Livi, and others were too over the top with the pattern.

and the more I read, the more I became disinterested in Damascus Steel altogether (at least considering the price). The dovo i have now is stainless steel, so i'm looking at carbon dovo's now (and TI's) all in the under 200$ price range.

I have made up my mind to learn to hone with the one razor I have. (the dovo). If I do mess it up, I'll just get it pro-honed or it will just give me an excuse to get a new razor, honed by Lynn, and I'll keep the dovo as the "learner." I'm just hard headed that way when it comes to learning stuff. I just go for it, good or ill.