Thread: Japanese straight questions

Originally Posted by sachin

Thanks JimR, Old_School and other SRP members for all the information that you guys have shared about Japanese razors.

I am still confused and my confusion leads me to a dumb question. In his youtube video, JimR mentions Ura as stamped side and Omote (flat-side) as the face side. Now when I looked at a picture of a Kanetake razor on Old_School's website, it appears that the the stamped side is flat. Also, for an Iwasaki razor, it appears that the stamped side is flat. So, I guess it would be easier for me to understand in terms of hollow and wedge (flat) sides rather than stamped and unstamped sides when shaving.

Thanks,
Sachin

Sachin, maybe this will help:
When you look at a Japanese razor lying on a table, with the edge facing to the left, you can see the stamps. On every single Japanese razor I've ever seen, in pictures or in person, it's the same. I've never seen a lefthanded razor, but I would imagine it's the opposite of a righthanded razor.

Anyway, the side that is up, with the stamps, is the Ura. It is not flat, it is concave.

The side that is on the table, that you can't see, is the Omote. That side has no stamps, and is only very slightly hollowed in the center, to allow for somewhat easier honing.

If you are seeing the stamped side as "flat" in the pictures, then I fear your eyes are being tricked somehow...

Thanks for the clarification Jim. I guess what has been confusing me is the shape of the blade. Anyways, the only way I can learn how to use a Japanese straight razor is to buy one. I hope SWMBO doesn't read this post anytime soon or I will be dead meat

here is the page where u can find the defintion of Ura and Omote

Mei

i am posting this one cuz i realized that a kamisori is not worn, but more likely held, so the distinction that applied to tachi and katana does not really apply here.
But taken that a kamisori was intended at first as a tool for barbers, when it is held, the Ura is facing the barbers, and the Omote is against the face of the person being shaved.
And that is why when u ask to a japanese barber : "what side should be used against the face?" you get answer like : "Only the Omote" (but that's not that clear cuz some barbers answer that both side could be used, but never answer "only the Ura" should be used)

So it's us that are taking the kamisori beyond it's "limits", by using it on ourselves.
But that already been said by someone else.

The twist is in our wrist
And it's because we are the barber and the person being shaved at the same time that with an asymetrical blade, we ge all mixed up.
Is it the Ura that should always face the barber or
is it the Omote that should always face the skin of the person being shaved ?

thanks for replying O_S

but, no, i did not use "us" in that way.
I was refering to all of us who are using a kamisori on ourselves.
i didn't want to point at japanese people or at barbers in specific.

it's just that kamisori were first meant to be used by barbers. Not by a single person using it on itself.
With a western bevel it doesn't matter, but with an asymetrical bevel, it does matters a lot.
Because when used by a single person on itself, it makes questions arise like : is there a side that is best to be used ?

and the answer we are getting to that is : mostly the omote.
what i wanted to explain is why ? why is it better to use the omote.
I never wanted to point at (or exclude) japanese people, i am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Not sure exactly what you mean by "us", but I make the assumption you are saying Japanese people or barbers do not shave themselves, in which case I must correct you, as the Japanese barber who taught me to hone Japanese straights, shaves himself using such razors. Where there is one, there is more.

=LesPoils;546551]

it's just that kamisori were first meant to be used by barbers. Not by a single person using it on itself.

Les do you have a source for this information? I have been searching and searching the web and have found nothing concrete that says the kamisori was originally meant to be used only by barbers or others to shave the shavee.

With a western bevel it doesn't matter, but with an asymetrical bevel, it does matters a lot.

I dont know if it matters alot, there are those around here that shave with both sides, the omote side only, or the ura side only. If it made a lot of difference I would figure it would be very easy to figure out which side was the proper side to use. It seems to me the kamisori is nothing but a bulky wedge razor(@1/2" wide spine, 1" tall) with some metal removed to make them less bulky and to create a more robust edge. The way in which the metal was removed creates a sharper bevel(Omote side, wider smaller angled bevel) and a more durable bevel(Ura side, skinnier steeper angled bevel), which is where the asymytric style comes from. To me it seems the sharper edge would like to be introduced to the whiskers, while the more durable less sharp edge, would be better suited against the face and stubble.


A barber could just as easily shave someone else using only the Ura, all they would have to do is have the shavee laying back in a barbers chair and the barber standing behind them, instead of standing to their front, using strokes like if they were shaving their self. It is my hypothesis that this is how they were originally used, until some barber wasnt comfortable with shaving that way and found that he could stand towards the shavees feet and shave with the omote side, using pulling strokes instead of pushing strokes. Once he found that it worked and stuck with it, others followed suit. Now hundreds of years later, after most barbers and blacksmiths that use/build these razors dont use them themselves, "that is the way it is done". Of course I could be wrong, but I cant find any concrete proof one way or the other. I have spent some time touring japanese museums online but cant find any reference to kamisori's, if only we shaved with a katana.

No, i have no proof whatsoever of what i am saying.

i am just a guy who is telling stories.......

well..... seems i killed the thread..

well, then i will post that, just to shut the f**k up once and for all then (sorry for my rudeness dudes)

what side do you think was MEANT to be used ???????
it is the diagram of a japanese KNIFE, right, but it could also be the one of a kamisori.
(in this diagram, the Ura is the "Back" -left side of the diagram-, and the Omote is the "Front" -right side of the diagram-)
obviously, one could do what he wants with his kamisori, obvioulsy.
as with his japanese knife
it's not kind of restricting your liberty, just trying to understand something.

and understanding japanese blades means knowing Omote from Ura. sorry.

from there, put the Ura (stamps side) on your face as much as u want (hey, i do it too), but understand that it was the Omote (non-stamped side) that was meant to be use on your face.
(unless you want to shave with the "back edge", wich is not impossible, but why a guy would buy a japanese knife and cut all his sashimi with the back edge ??) *thinking about it*

anyways...

Anybody try any new moves?