Thread: Japanese straight questions

Well I thought that Jnats were a vague subject until I decided to research and eventually buy a japanese straight. One post says to use the stamped side(ura?) and the next post says to use the omote(?). Then I came across this thread by O_S http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...zor-works.html , which compares a japanese plane to a str8 and comes to the conclusion to use the non-stamped side. I watched the video of JimR shaving with one and he kept the stamped side out, at the time I thought he was just trying to show that you can shave with both, since at that time I was under the impression that the stamped side was the one held against the skin, turns out he is in the camp of shaving with the razor that way as is IIRC Sired8, O_S. Then if you read any BigSpenders posts it is completely opposite. Here are the problems I am having with believing that the omote side is for shaving. In the forementioned post by O_S he says that thinking the stamps are on the backside is counterinuitive for us western straight users since we are used to the front being stamped, which I can see that point, but it seems to me after buying a few jnats that the japanese stamp the front of things too. Next when you grab hold of a right-handed jsr8 your index finger naturally goes to the indentation on the handle and the stamped side would automatically be against your face, unless doing some strange contortions. If you want to get the omote side on your face you have to either use your left hand to grab it or you need to hold it more like a western straight with fingers draped over the top and thumb on bottom. The next thing is if you look at the wiki(real one not the one on site) and look for traditional japanese knives the right handed version would place the ura(stamped) side against whatever you are cutting which imo would put the ura against the face and the omote away. I do see the point that with the way the stamp side is shaped it looks like it would dig in more than the omote side would, SiRed8 has stated the only time he cut himself was when using the stamped side against his face, but just because it is easier to shave with the omote doesnt make it right, imo. So what say you, has this been settled long ago and I am just writing nonsense or do any of you agree with me, that it is settled but opposite of the way most around here think it is? I am just a noob, so please enlighten me. Thanks.

I know very little about Japanese Straights, so I can't really help.

However, it seems you are using the term JNat to describe a Japanese Straight razor..

Just a heads up, JNats are Japanese NATural stones, very high grit, naturally formed honing stones.. Japanese Straight razors are just Japanese Straight Razors...

That's all I got though. Sorry

EDIT: Oh... My bad... Duh >.< Misread when you were talking about the stamping on JNats.

Hi JasonGreat,

JimR has a kamasori demo video floating around on the ether waves. It's...educational. It's what got me using a Japanese str8. Sometimes too much information causes confusion. Experimentation is the fun part. Do what is natural for YOU. I use the small Iwasaki, stamp side out. I am right handed. WTG on right side of face. ATG on left side of face. Finish up ATG entire face for BBS. 90% of my shave is ATG. I use small buffing motions ATG, stretch skin tight as a tympany. Chin and lip area is most difficult.
I flip the razor over for the upper right lip above mustache and the left side of chin. It's a little less successful but more accurate for me. Maximillian has a pic showing his new Japanese str8 in todays post if you scroll to the last page you can see how he is using it. Keep researching and practice your technique. Do what comes natural. LOL.
Moe

Dude, I would love to help you out, but that was a wee bit too stream-of-consciousness for me. Sorry.

I get the general idea is which side to shave with?

OK, here's how it breaks down:
From my barber, who's been using these for nearly 40 years; to a barber's manual written by Kousuke Iwasaki (father of Shigeyoshi Iwasaki); to every Japanese website about using these that I've seen, all the sources seem to agree...Shaving, use the stamp side (ura) out, omote (non-stamped side) against the skin.

Do you have to? No. You don't have to do anything--life is full of freedom.

But that's the way it's been done for a REALLY LONG TIME in Japan.

Originally Posted by JimR

Dude, I would love to help you out, but that was a wee bit too stream-of-consciousness for me. Sorry.

I get the general idea is which side to shave with?

OK, here's how it breaks down:
From my barber, who's been using these for nearly 40 years; to a barber's manual written by Kousuke Iwasaki (father of Shigeyoshi Iwasaki); to every Japanese website about using these that I've seen, all the sources seem to agree...Shaving, use the stamp side (ura) out, omote (non-stamped side) against the skin.

Do you have to? No. You don't have to do anything--life is full of freedom.

But that's the way it's been done for a REALLY LONG TIME in Japan.

It seems my grasp of the english language is somewhat lacking. What I intended was not to sound like I was questioning your advice, which it seems is how it has been taken. I thank you for your video and all the information you have added to this forum. I have been reading, watching, and trying to absorb it all for quite a few days now. The reason I posted old schools thread was in it he was looking deeper into the theory of why more than any other thread I had read to that point, which usually were just so and so told me or thats just the way it is or it works for me do whatever works for you. I understand that the thing we are shooting for is a good close comfortable shave and that there are many ways to get there. The question I have and discussion I was hoping to start is why are they designed the way they are, as I said Old_School's post was put forward on my part to be a starting point to the discussion not an attack on any of the fine members I listed in my OP, nor was it intended on my part to speak for any of them or to put words in their(your) mouth, if I did I apologize, I was trying to provide a summary of the most prevelent points made in other threads I have read. I will try a different format:

There is a small difference of opinion about if a japanese straight is designed to work with the ura(stamp side) out, or the omote side out. These are some of the pros and cons for each side that I have found searching the forums and web:

Ura side out:
Pros:
Jstr8s are similar in design to japanese planes, for further info see O_S's thread posted earlier(in OP).

Lots of information on the web says to use them this way.

One of the present day blacksmiths use them this way, as did his father.

Most present day users use them this way.

They are easier to use this way.(relative for each user)

It is less easy to cut yourself this way.(relative for each user)

Cons:

Jstr8s shape is similar to japanese knife grinds, explained at Wikipedia(not the wiki), where on right handed knives the thing being removed(slice of fish(hair)) is on the omote side, while the thing having things removed from is on the ura side(rest of fish(face)).

To hold a right handed Jstr8 in the most comfortable way, sets the Ura side against the face. This is the one that sticks out most to me.

Easier to cut yourself, harder to shave with.(relative for each user)

I have probably forgot a few but this seems to me to be where the discussion regarding the why is situated. I am not trying to start an im right your wrong thread but this is what I think the original blacksmith had in mind when he came up with this design thread. Thanks for everyones replies so far. Sorry if any offense was given or perceived.

Jason

We of the Kaeshi-ba school will say: "you can only do, what you can do"

A lot depends on how; how well you sharpen it.

Another thing we say is: "use it the way you use it"
Always shave with the edge not the side


Mr. R has some impressive sources; and I certainly felt a great benefit when he first shared his lesson with the barber. !!have one on me JR. I've been told both sides were exclusive so I gave up, taking advantage of the freedom Jim mentions to shave my own face.

Oh great ! I took the advice of a member of this forum , who has been shaving with straights longer than I have , and 2 years ago was considered to be an authority on Japanese straight razors . And now I find out , that for the past 2 years I've been shaving with the wrong side of the razor , and I've turned it into a franken-razor by honing it improperly . The razor shaves great no matter which side I put towards my face , and I'm beginning to believe nobody knows jack about these razors .

JimR has the school solution i.e. the most correct way directly from
makers and users in Japan.

I wish I owned one so I could put on the hat of an authority....

Having said that, when the blade is sharp the key difference
from one side to the other is the bevel. By adjusting the
angle as needed for your face and your beard it
should shave ya.... just fine.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

LOL well I know your not talking about me.

No it wasn't you O_S . I really don't want to mention who it was , because he was trying to help me , and no one disputed what he was saying , at the time . My Tosuke is still my best shaver no matter which side I use .

A while back I purchased a Tosuke from OS. He sharpened that baby right up beautifuly. The edge is sharp and smooth on both sides. At this moment I am a bit confused if I am supposed to seperate whiskers from my face or my face from the whiskers.

Call me a crazy rebel but I use both sides of the blade. It may not be technicaly correct in the traditional sense but for me it works just fine in the end.