Thread: French Point & Irish Point: Any Difference?

Check out "point styles" in the SRP Wiki here.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Check out "point styles" in the SRP Wiki here.

Yeah...I've studied that illustration quite a bit, but it doesn't distinguish between the two. Some seem to be under the impression that there is a subtle difference, and others seem to think not.



That's what we're trying to establish here.

~ Ryan

Originally Posted by KingOfBreifne

Yeah...I've studied that illustration quite a bit, but it doesn't distinguish between the two. Some seem to be under the impression that there is a subtle difference, and others seem to think not.



That's what we're trying to establish here.

~ Ryan

I recalled this old thread here where Neil Miller posted a link to a site with points depicted including the "irish Point". Sometimes referred to by some as a French Point .

After thinking about this a lot, I've changed my mind and believe that an "Irish Point" and a "French Point" are simply two names for the same thing - a forward sloping tip. Whether that slope is rounded or straight, or that point is rounded or squared. They all just simply have a forward sloping tip, and that's all that's being described.

The first documented place I saw the expression "Irish point" was on page 21 of Philip L. Krumholtz's book "Getting to Know Your Straight Razors." He shows a picture of a razor which he refers to as having a "'Sloped' or 'Irish' tip." He also makes reference to "'Rounded' or 'Dutch' tips." What I would call a Spanish point, he refers to as a "'Dished' point."

Interestingly, I note that Krumholtz never uses the term French Point or Spanish Point anywhere in the book, even though there are plenty of razors pictured that I myself would call French or Spanish pointed. So I think it's just different colloquial or regional names for exactly the same thing.

When I first read Krumholtz's book, I looked at the French point razor photo on page 21, which he calls an Irish point, and took it so literally I thought that the razor pictured had some subtle variation that made it "Irish" vs. "French" - specifically, a strong forward convex slope, coming to a near-square point. But now, I believe I was simply being too literal and naive, and reading too much into the photo - it's just a random picture of what I know as a French point.

French or Irish, Rounded or Dutch, Spanish or Dished - they are all just different names that describe the general profile.

I am partial to Canadian and Mongolian points myself. <LOL>

Originally Posted by John Crowley

I am partial to Canadian and Mongolian points myself. <LOL>

That's because you're into marketing. The only true point is the German point, though.


As an aside, Bill Ellis will never see any business from me or any person I know.

That blade design looks very similar to the TI limited Edition blades..........

I wonder what they call it with or without the broken.....I mean rounded point.........

Originally Posted by Lynn

I wonder what they call it with or without the broken.....I mean rounded point.........

Bets are on "The Chronikles of Riddickulous".

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I recalled this old thread here where Neil Miller posted a link to a site with points depicted including the "irish Point". Sometimes referred to by some as a French Point .

Thanks for bringing that up Jimmy - it pre-dates Bill Ellis by quite a bit and was already established terminology while the late Bill Hukin was apprenticed (he died age 89 in 1995), so no kudos to Ellis there.

It's sad how things get "dis"remembered and others get credit for things not their own. I suppose that's how time subtly changes things, though, and it's a natural process as long as enough people don't know the real origins or don't try to point them out.

Gugi has made this (wrong) point before however - here.

Regarding the diagrams of the points that Jimmy's page recalled, the exact page is here - the diagrams and notes were taken by Ken Hawley when he interviewed Bill Hukin.

Why on earth try to credit Bill Ellis (great man though he is) with the invention of the Irish point, when it clearly predates both him and Bill Hukin???

Regards,
Neil

I am pretty sure Bill takes no credit for coining Irish Point. I seem to remember reading him saying that from what he has read, that shape was an Irish point and that was what he was going to call it, not French.