Thread: *P subtail razor early 1800's, looking for info

Originally Posted by Fikira

Aha! Do you know where I can find such information?
The directory of 1787 only mentions "*P Fox and Norris" and I've got no luck finding earlier references...

As I understand it (Thanks to Neil Miller!),
the "Fox and Norris" in the Directory of 1787 where John Fox (1714 - 1793)
and Samuel Norris (1745 - 1817)

It was only after the death of the Fox brothers (John was the last living) that Samuel Norris could inherit the *P mark as his own. Before this happened, Samuel was the associate of John Fox.

Since the directory of 1747 already had a *P Fox and Norris, this Norris was Matthew Norris (? - 1761, this was the father of Samuel) and not Samuel because he was only 2 year old.

Now, since Matthew died in 1761, could it be that Samuel (16 years old) was too young for the association???
Maybe this is the timeframe where John Fox operated on his own until Samuel was old enough to become an associate. Or another timeframe is in the very beginning of the association.

I would like to know if John Fox or Matthew Norris began first...


Thanks!

Just bought it yesterday,
very excited to have it!

Kindest regards

BTW i found some geneology info about Stephen Fox and his family: Stirnet Though this says Geoerge was one of the sons? and if you can take a screenshot before the site kicks you out for not logging in - it seems catherine died around 1746? wow that seems REALLY early.

IT IS possible that the John fox and matthew norris started fox&norris and using *P mark as a partnership from the get go, according that that site, by 1739 Matthew norris was married to Catherine Fox already.

BTW, if what you say is right then: a *P mark with "John Fox" on it COULD indicate when John Fox operated ALONE as you said, after the death of Matthew norris, but in the few intervening years before sam norris was too young? We know Sam norris got master cutler in 1777, so my question is: how young is "too young for association"? Or could it be that Sam never really went into business with his uncles, but went straight into doing on his own, until he inherited the mark for a few years around the turn of the century?

IDK how strict people were with these things tho? Cuz i've seen *P with "John Fox", I've seen a *P that is CLEARLY an early 19th cent. razor by shape so had to be Sam Norris...and mine - which is JUST a *P with no indication of names. My THINKING is that John fox operated on his own PRIOR to partnership with Norris, marking his razors with name and *P. Once he partnered with Norris he would have just used the mark? especially once it became well known. Until all the Fox brothers died and fox&norris was no more in the 1790s. This means: "*P John Fox" is the oldest - possibly dating to 1740s then came the partnership which was already there by 1748 (per the directory) until at least 1787 and likely into the 1790s when it is most likely the "*P" mark was used on its own without any qualifications/names.