Thread: Smooth Vs. Sharp

Originally Posted by Steel

Glen, I read our conversation again and I am clearly tired and not doing a good job explaining myself. You may very well be right. Stranger things have happened. I am sure what you are saying makes perfect sense to you. I just don't see it. Maybe someday down the road I will. I just don't think my face can feel that micro of a difference and am more inclined to think it is the blade ever so slightly tugging and pulling the hair that causes a "rough" shave. Maybe somehow we are both right.

One thing we can both agree on though is "Don't shave with a steak knife".

Good Night everyone

You want tugging and pulling of your whiskers, you should try one of my razors. Guaranteed to give one the idea of going cave man!

Originally Posted by Steel

One thing we can both agree on though is "Don't shave with a steak knife".

...Take all the fun out of it why don't ya!?

Originally Posted by doc47

I think you will find that razors made with Swedish steel and special Japanese Steel called TAMAHAGANE, will hold their edges longer and provide a lasting keen edge. That has been my experience with the Swedish and Japanese razors I own. Each has been finished on 20K glass plates, and stropped to finish. Each razor now has about 10 shaves each and they feel as good or slightly better than just after they were honed.

I am going to agree 100% with an addition to the note.

A darn fine razor IMO should be a pure carbon steel with a minimum of carbides.
Mostly these are very pure steel made from magnetic separated minerals and smelted with
clean coke/coal, or charcoal. Carbides can give a knife slicing ability, carbon steels also have carbides,
but of a different type. A razor is used to push cut so carbides get in the way of a smooth shave. Carbides
and cutting rope made for each other.

White steel #1 (Shirogami #1) steel is one of the better modern pure carbon steel minimum carbide steels out there.

see 1 below)
"Shirogami
"White steel (also known as “white paper steel”, named for the wrapping used by its manufacturer) is used to make tools that
can be sharpened to an excellent edge with good quality natural stones. It is a carbon steel with only very small amounts of the
impurities P (phosphorus) and S (sulfur). It has a very narrow range of temperatures for hardening (Yakiire and quenching),
and thus requires the blacksmith to be very skilled. There are three forms of white steel with different carbon contents: #1 (1.2-
1.4% C), #2 (1.0-1.2% C) and #3 (0.8-0.9%). "

Tamahagane is handmade small batch steel/iron and select bits of the bloom are high carbon steel while
other bits are not high carbon. The skill of Japaneses smiths make this a prize. There is very old and recently
smelted tamahagane.

Steel made in Eskilstuna Sweden is apparently about the same purity and has a history of great razors.
Sandvik makes such steel and was founded in 1862 in Sweden. "Silver steel is a name for high-carbon steel.
Swedish steel is made in Sweden - but it can (and usually is) high-quality high-carbon steel. (2)"
Look for Silver Steel...

The point to take away is a pure high carbon steel must be worked to have a fine grain then
first hardened (brittle like glass) and then tempered correctly to a useful hardness just short of too
brittle so it can be honed and used.

Old razors and makers did not have the smelters and tools we have today for temperature control.
When they got one right it was so very nice. This includes Solingen and many other old and new makers.
Big makers today might temper a blade just a bit softer than I think an ideal razor is.
If you read this forum a lot of folk drop and shatter blades and it is always the expensive ones.
Old razors had to be sharpened so tempering and honing went hand in hand. This gave an edge
to makers with access to good coticule stone and hard slate hone stone.
Today the better man made hones can hone very hard steel and are are made with a
uniform grit and gentle grade steps to not microchip.

After carbide barber hones arrived I think US steel razors got harder.
Carbide inventor Edward G. Acheson in 1891... I happen to like New York made razors.
Thiers Issard razors tempered in hot lead today might be harder than their other razors.

Hard steel and a fine grind both difficult and results in a fragile product thus, cost more to make.

So great steel + great forging and grinding + great heat treating + great honing = Great Razor

1) https://www.hidatool.com/image/data/...el%20Chart.pdf
2) http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...tml#post264426

Lots of great razors out there...

Olof Heljestrand invented a method for making cast steel. The Swedish institutions “Jernkontorets Berghistoriska Utskott” (The Miners Historical Comity of the Iron Bureau) and the Swedish Chamber of Commerce considered that the invention was of such importance that it should be used by all the Swedish steel producers. Therefore Olof´s invention was not patent protected and as compensation he obtained a gratuity from the Swedish King Carl XIV Johan in 1825. First he was paid 3,000 SEK and later on 2,000 SEK more.
Even among the famed steelworking regions, Eskilstuna steel was prized for its hardness and durability; this to the extent that, even with their own high quality steel, manufacturers in Solingen, Sheffield and even as far away as Japan were importing and using Eskilstuna steel to augment their products. Some of the best-known of these manufacturers are/were Dovo, Carl Monkhouse Dorko, Hess, Parker, Cape, Toyo, Takehana/Kikuboshi and Baba, who touted the qualities of “Swedish Steel” as the best for making razors that can hold an edge.

Originally Posted by doc47

who touted the qualities of “Swedish Steel” as the best for making razors that can hold an edge.

And not for razors, but for knives, you can add the old Randall Made Knives to that list. Not sure if that is still the case, but it was in the '60s and previous.

I find that Sheffield, Genco, Puma, Bengal and Koch razors are smoother then some of the other brands out there. I also marvel at how smooth some of my Livi razors are. For finishing to achieve a sharp edge that shaves smooth. I will use a 12k Naniwa, then about 10 laps under running water on my Escher which takes off some of the sharpness then to my Livi Chromium Oxide linen strop finished with the Livi skin. Leaves the razor sharp, polished and shaving very smooth. After each shave I go to my TM hanging strop. When the razor starts to lose that smoothness, I repeat the procedure. Couple that with some premium creams and pre-shave prep and you got yourself a really smooth shave. I shave every day and with good technique and a well honed razor, its a pleasure.