Thread: Smooth Vs. Sharp

Hello Gentlemen,

I think I have finally experienced the subtle difference between a smooth edge versus a sharp edge when it comes to shaving. This may not be anything new for the more experienced straight shavers out there, but today's shave was an "A-ha" moment for me. I may not be able to put it into words, but I'll describe how I came to realize the difference. I have been lucky with my "shave ready" razor purchases since I began this new hobby almost a couple of years ago. My first couple of razors were purchased from a member here who also offers honing services, the third from a member who sells razors as a vendor, and I had a heirloom razor restored by a mastercraftsman of a member here. All of these razors give an amazingly smooth shave! These members know how to put a SMOOTH edge on a razor. Which brings me to today's shave. I shaved with a supposedly shave ready razor recently won on the bay. I felt comfortable bidding on the razor as the seller knows the lingo to use and had positive feedback from some well known members of SRP within the last year. I even searched the forum here to see if this seller was or is a member of SRP, but no luck on that front. Well, I have to say the razor was sharp and did shave, but it was FAR from smooth. It's hard to for me to explain the difference between sharp and smooth, but I guess you know it when you feel it in your shave.
My hat is off to the members here who offer honing & restoration services, you guys are amazing and thank-you for offering your skills with a blade to the masses.
Thank-you.

Unfortunately most guys starting out and even those with some shaves under their strops really don't truly know what a shave ready razor feels like. Sure if you're razor doesn't cut you know it but to cut properly and be comfortable is the pinnacle which you now understand. As with everything all is relative so we form our impressions as we go up the ladder. This includes everything from razors to soaps and everything in between.

The distinction you draw between smooth versus sharp, and since you draw a distinction, I assume you mean the sharp is not necessarily smooth ..... makes me think of the Feather versus the old Gillette Swede in the realm of DE razors. IME a Feather is very sharp but not smooth for the first shave. Some guys run theirs through a cork to take off the harshness. I never tried that but I did notice the shave improved with the second and third use. The Gillette Swede combined the same sharpness with wonderful smoothness to my particular skin and whiskers. The same distinction can be found in a straight razor depending on the steel, hones used and the skill of the honer.

I find it amazing that you can actually feel a difference that subtle when you're shaving! It's a testament to how sensitive your skin can be - it can tell the difference between two edges that you would need a strong magnifying glass to tell apart by eye. With only a couple of straight shaves under my belt I'm nowhere near this level, but I look forward to gaining that experience

Maybe the guy that sold the razor to you doe not have an issue with smoothness the way he shaves. Not all skins are the same.

Originally Posted by Kees

Maybe the guy that sold the razor to you doe not have an issue with smoothness the way he shaves. Not all skins are the same.

You're correct. I guess the point I was making was really more of a "Thank-You" to the members here who offer honing services. I have not learned how to hone yet, but it's on my "To do" list. Anyone can learn to sharpen a razor, but to put the finishing touches on it to make it smooth is a different story, then to be confident enough and willing to offer honing services to the members here for a small fee is amazing. Once I learn how to hone, I am sure I will be happy just to get a razor sharp enough to shave with, smooth or not.

I recall using a razor that was struggling to give a good shave and I thought the blade was dull and just then I became careless and the blade touched the side of my face by accident and I had an instant scratch that started to bleed a little. These scratch events were happening during my learning curve and after a few incidents, I finally smarted up - Its always sharp enough to do damage, but it needs to be honed up a little to give a smoother shave.

My feather blade is so sharp on its first shave that I only do a WTG pass for three consecutive shaves while using another razor to do the 2nd/3rd touch up passes. This seems to tame the initial edge and then its good for another three - four full shaves.

Pabster

Using chromium oxide paste helps to smoothen a razor's edge. Something to remember when you start honing. It often makes a tremendous difference!

I don't know what the eBay guy finished that razor on, but, to resurrect this thread, I feel compelled to say this: smooth/sharp does not have to be an either/or. Doesn't matter what the razor is finished on: a fine Jnat, S30K, Escher, diamond on felt, CBN, etc; provided the honer knows how to get the best out of his choice of finishing medium & provided the shaver doesn't use too much pressure (not at all implying the OP is), it is very possible to have both in the same package. This notion of having to pick one or the other is kind of a myth, really.

On edges finished on my Oozuku, I sometimes catch myself using the angle/pressure I would use on a coticule finished edge, wondering why it fees a bit aggressive & why the hair cutting is not completely effortless. I then back off on both angle & pressure (counterintuitively, it almost seems) & then I don't even feel the hairs being cut. At all. Nor do I feel the Clubman afterwards in that spot--at all.

Of course, some finishes are easier on the skin than others, but just because a razor is very sharp doesn't mean it necessarily has to be harsh also. Just food for thought.

I'm not entirely sure anyone was suggesting there was any sort of trade-off between sharp and smooth. In my mind that is the goal of honing a razor and always has been.

These are just my thoughts, and could be entirely off the mark, but they are what I work off.

Sharpness has to do with how close both sides of the bevel can be made to meet and in a certain sense can be quantified if you had an accurate enough measuring device.

Smoothness is a more subjective term. Certainly smoothness must necessarily contain an element of sharpness (an edge that is not sharp will most certainly not be smooth, unless it is a complete butter knife edge, but I am assuming we are not talking about trivial cases). Smoothness can also have to do with the depth of the scratch patterns on each bevel, and I tend to think this translates to the gouges that present themselves at the actual edge due to those scratch patterns, perhaps moreso than what is actually happening on the sides themselves.

And of course one man's smoothness can be another's harsh edge, and vice-versa.

Where I differ a bit from the conventional way of thinking is that I tend to think you can keep making the edge finer (sharper) as you move up the grits. I definitely do not subscribe to the idea that what you have after the 1 or 4K hone is the best you'll get in terms of how closely you can make those sides meet. As long as you are abrading, no matter how slowly, you are moving those sides closer together. It might be negligible in comparison to what happens off a low grit hone, but it is happening.

So as a philosophical thing I do not tend to make a distinction between sharp and smooth, because to me going for sharp does not end once you go higher than a 4K hone. But that is just me and I certainly do not claim any monopoly on, nor mastery of, razor honing theory.

James.