Thread: My First Coticule

Judging from his picture I don't think it was a Les Petas, either la grise or nouvelle veine would be my guess, but it's hard to tell
I'm not particularly fond of my Les Petas honing feel either, feels idd like honing over gravel and I'm sure the OP would have mentioned if that were the case with his

I concur with what Pithor said, I had Bart show me in real life how to use a Coticule and he gave great tips and advice, it certainly helped a lot; but if I didn't practice or put in the time afterwards, I would still not be able to use one

I too started my honing journey with a Coti, straight from Marcel at the mine. It was a select Coti and it's the one I still use. Like Pithor said, perhaps you need to give it a bit more time. I followed Bart's Unicot and Dilucot methods until I was able to dull a blade on the bottom of a glass and bring it to buttery smooth. What puzzles me a bit is why you would go back to the Coti after having worked your way up to 12k on synthetics. That's already a bit beyond what the Coti can deliver. In this case I'd take a blade that you don't consider a top-blade and simply dull it on the bottom of a glass and work your way up fully on the Coti from heavy slurry 1k-ish all the way up to the only-water 8-9k-ish. At some point, on slurry, the razor will start to cut arm hair, that's the point where the bevel is more or less set. You can then start to decrease pressure and make your strokes increasingly lighter. Follow either the Unicot, or the Dilucot method from Bart fully on the Coti and see how that goes for you.
Definitely don't give up. Stones are a thing that you need to learn and every stone has its own peculiarities. (Check Glenn's signature, lol)

I wouldnt say like gravel but its surely not a smooth feel. Rough but not like a corse grit stone. Kinda bumpy feel even after i lapped the hell out of it.

And yes i agree that i have not put much time in on it. Will most likely give it a bit more time in the next weekend to see how it acts. See if the inclusions smooth out some more as i cant imagine that a spped bump (ok, thats a little harsh) will help in getting a smooth edge.

I went from 12k because this is my thoughts... finished and sharp. Not to the Coti with water to smooth out the edge for more comfort. Some folks thing that 12k is too far, others say its ok. Some say 8k is where you should start. I figured i need to learn this in steps. Starting with a finished blade, then do the unicot method. And at that time if im getting something right and some more practice id move on to a bit of slurry.
Im not looking to use a Coti from start to finish. My synthetics do a great job. I just want to find another/smoother and poissible more comfortable edge. I dont have problems with the synthetic edges. Just want to have more things to try and not be limited.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Oil will wash off a coticule with soap and water. He could easily wash it before returning it.

Oil on some stone is "forever"... I might oil my hone but not if I was planning to return it.
I would do nothing to it to obscure the problem or make the vendor regret taking it back.

It is not common to use oil with a coticule as far as I know. Oil and grease like Vaseline can make
an old hone act a lot finer than it is and is one of the old school tricks so some old rocks will
be oiled.

Any update on this Jerry?
Hope you got it figured out and are getting the edge you've been seeking.



I was doing a touch up in my TI "Spartacus" yesterday and this thread came to mind.

Also I've found some of my razors get that stick to the stone feeling when they are finished, and others don't. Now the TI doesn't, but the shave was phenomenal and very smooth. Go figure......

Thanks for bringing it up Dieseld.
I sent my stone to Dinnermint and he sent me his stone plus a razor honed on it. Very nice of him to do. He replied after getting mine and said it does have a couple spots on stone that put dents in his edge. He said he did some lapping and fine tuning on it and it might have been corrected but hasn't got back to me yet on it. I told him no hurry and to do what he can. If its beyond help then thats fine. I just picked a bad stone and things happen I guess.

I used his stone with his directions on a blade that I had finished on a 12K and think It came out about like the edge he had sent me. The edge on both his and mine just don't feel as smooth or sharp as what I find with the 12K. With my minimal experience I'd say it felt like an 8K edge. And from what I read, that's about right. Not really a pulling but it don't slice thru the whiskers as easy. On my third attempt to shave with my razor honed on the Coti I found a lot of irritation after the shave. Thinking this was caused from too much pressure because I felt like I needed more to get it thru the whiskers. Not Good! Went back to his stone with my razor and did another 200+ laps and shaved with it and that shave was even worse???

I've still not found the sticking feeling. I know his stone is not causing any issues so that just leaves me as the problem. Last night I went back to my razor, finished on 12K, Then went with the micro bevel using the coti to see if that might help. I'm trying to figure this Coti thing out but not having much success. I'm not giving up yet but in the back of my mind I'm thinking, Coti is about 8K. What I am looking for is a smoother feel to the edge. I haven't felt the buttery smooth edge folks talk about even on the blade he honed. The 12K is sharp and slices thru whiskers well. Maybe I should be looking for a different type of stone. Maybe what I'm looking for is a harder polisher type of stone. What come to mind (and its just from reading) is the Arkansas. I hear its a damn hard stone, takes a long time to get anywhere with it and it might fine tune the edge smoother.

So there you go. I'm still working away with this when I get the time. But with the hours I work I don't get much time to practice and test shave. Damn whiskers don't grow fast enough for 3 shaves a day. Ha.
I've also been thinking about the Zulu Grey stone or a Thuri but I'm just not ready to drop any funds down on stones just yet until I've exhausted myself trying the use the Coti and finding out if its really for me or not.

Sorry to go on and on but this is where I'm at. It took me about 6 months to get great results with synthetic stones because of the time I can put into them so It might be a longer haul to see if the Coti is going to work for me. Who knows. Maybe last nights micro bevel will be the trick and give me what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the update Jerry

I have been lucky with my coti I guess. Mine feels like my 12k when I touch it with my my finger. And it does put a great edge on my razors.
Not to question your system, so please don't think I am. But how much stropping do you do after the honing?
I usually go 100 linen, 100 suede then about 100-150 on the Kanayama 90.
Now I also do this before every shave. So to me it's my go to way.
Knowing the collection of strops you have, you may consider strop progression and it might just get you where you want to be but I know it sure won't hurt

Best of luck my friend, using new stones can be quite the challenge

You strop the hell out of a blade my friend. Ha.
Off the hone, I will normally do 50 on linen and 150 of leather. Before a shave I do 100 on leather and after a shave I do 30 on linen to help dry the edge then 60 on leather before putting it away.

I'll try the progression thing. Thats why I bought all the strops but that Buffalo just makes me so happy I find it being the one I use 90% of the time. I'll strop the hell out of before the shave tonight. Cant hurt thats for sure. And no worries on questioning my system. Thats how we all learn and get better.

coticules not for everyone. High polish naturals I would look for are Thuri bout, jnat, or oil stones. Maybe a charnley forest, think I would just keep eyes on BST.

Test shaved the Micro bevel on the Coti...

Much better!
Now if it was the Coti micro bevel, or the billion passes on the strop per Dieseld's instructions, I'm not sure. Ha. I hate changing two things at once. Shame on me! Stropping consisted of 100 passes on linen, 100 on Latigo, 100 on English Bridal, 100 on Buffalo, 100 on Roo and lastly 100 on Kanayama70,000. Damn my arm is tired after all that stropping! Yep, 600 laps!

But the feel to the TPT was much better. About like the 12K TPT results. The shave was smoother cutting thru the whiskers. Not like cutting butter like the 12K but damn close! No irritation after the shave so I wasn't feeling like I needed to use more pressure this time when it was cutting.

All in all, a DFS. And as usual, next to BBS. Very happy with these results. Might have to pull out another razor for some Coti honing for comparison to see if I can do a standard honing without the micro bevel. After a touch-up on 8K first. Damn sure not ready to go from a bevel-set with synthetics right to a Coti. YET!

Thanks Dave!