Thread: Douglas cutlery

Originally Posted by bishpick1

this is why the worn out quarter hollows you mentioned dull so quickly and why you want to chunk them into the display case instead of using them.

Or maybe they shaved well & were honed a lot over 1 or 2 centuries of use.

Originally Posted by HNSB

SR-71 Blackbird

You'd be moving so fast, all you would see is colored splotches rolling beneath ya.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Or maybe they shaved well & were honed a lot over 1 or 2 centuries of use.

I'm sure it did. That's what make great razors great. Maybe this issue will be settled in another century or two. I at least got to state my side of the issue, agree or not, that's a good thing.

Originally Posted by bishpick1

The razors come already beveled and shave ready I would not expect anyone to have to set a bevel on a new blade. As far as the eventual dulling issue that is another advantage to carbon-chromium steels they resists dulling because the thinnest part of the edge can flex without chipping or bending longer than high carbon steel can. Again, it’s spring steel. This is why the thicker blade profile is used, it’s a stiffer spring. Think “band saw” if you make a band saw blade from high carbon steel it will break very quickly, it can’t flex. However if you use carbon-chromium (what they are made of by the way) it will work for a long time because it can flex. It’s not as hard as tool steel but it is more forgiving of damage. The thinner blades made of this steel work just as well as high carbon, and they sing just like high carbon, but the thicker blade profile works smoother, with less flex. The high carbon blades were made thinner and thinner to spread the shock of the edge flexing and reduce edge damage. They became so thin they added the shoulder to prevent horizontal cracking. It was a compromise. With carbon-chromium there is no need for compromise, just make a thicker blade, no vertical crack, no horizontal cracks just a stiff long lasting edge.

I think you may want to look up how razors dull because your speculations aren't quite how it works.
As far as flexing goes, that has very little to do with thickness at the bevel, and neither does edge damage.
I mean it's one thing to manufacture your razors in particular geometry because customers prefer them that way or because it is way easier and cheaper to make them that way, but rationalizing it with wrong science/engineering is no good.

Take a look at the razors marketed 'For Tough Beards' when straight shaving was far more common and there was huge competition. A lot of them, including from the top manufacturers, are full hollow and extra full hollow ground.

Lastly I'd mention that I happen to have a ~200 year old razor (yes the maker stopped producing them ~200 years ago) with a 1/32" bevel thickness. Yes, there is no flex whatsoever, the steel composition from back then is I assume pretty simple, but it's heat treated properly and is really easy to hone (I've done it just once), really nice to shave with, and retains an edge long time.

last thing P 38 lightning with out a doubt.

That is beautiful,,,,,,,,

A dulled razors edge on the right. chipped and broken

Much different from a dulled razor knifes edge. (Exacto) what most people think of as dulled.

That’s the difference between cutting laterally as a knife, and on a bias as a shear (razor). Carbon-Chromium resists this kind of damage. That's not to say vintage blades didn't do very well, good enough to last centuries in fact, it's only to say I went a different way. besides when did good enough become a reason to not do something else.

These pictures by themselves are completely meaningless. So, let's start to put some meaning to them.

First picture:
1) What is on the left side - razor? What kind of razor, grind, steel type, etc.?
2) What is on the right side - razor? What kind of razor, grind, steel type, etc.?
3) What happened to the right side since it was honed and stropped? Shaving? How many times, over what period, maintenance between shaves?
4) What is the scale on those pictures, say the distance along the edge on the left side?

Second picture:
1) What is on the picture - exacto knife blade?
2) How does the exact same blade look like when brand new?
3) What has happened between the blade being brand new and that picture, i.e. what was cut, over what period etc.?

Forget all of this techno-mumbo-jumbo. The bottom line to any razor is customer satisfaction. This gentleman makes a very unique product that seems to appeal to, and satisfy, his customer base. It seems that some folks are throwing his razors onto the Gold Dollar pile because his grind/bevel is unconventional. I wonder how those first hollow grinds were received in Sheffield back in the day. Those early makers didn't have electron microscopes or hardness indexes. They relied on trial and error, experience, feel, and common sense to arrive at a large variety of steels, grinds, shapes, tempers, etc., etc. Their razors either found their niche and then became successful or, like hundreds of examples, became extinct. Like any product this man's razors should be judged by results and not because they are outside the norm.

Regards - Walt

Disclaimer: Even though I live in close proximity to this gentleman I have never met or spoken with him and have never seen or owned any of his razors.

Originally Posted by Walt

Forget all of this techno-mumbo-jumbo. The bottom line to any razor is customer satisfaction.

Absolutely, that's one way to look at it. But all of us come here to talk about straight razors, and very large part of it is the 'techno-mumbo-jumbo'. If the only thing we'll be ever saying is "the market is the ultimate decider" then we may as well close the site an put one page "As long as you're satisfied with your razor everything is great, otherwise contact consumer protection!"

Let's see which are the most commercially successful "razors"? The razor shaped objects of the zee-pk type. They've been going on longer than just about any custom razor maker, sell in far larger quantities and there is no evidence that customer (dis)satisfaction with them is making any difference on that market.
I am certainly not lumping the razor in the OP with those razor shaped objects, just demonstrating the falsehood of the "let the market decide".

In any case, we talk forever about stuff like honing, and stropping, we talk over and over about the same hones, razors, brushes, soaps, etc.
Some people apparently took issue with unnecessarily wide bevels. I could see those as something positive from aesthetic point of view, but functionally they are the opposite of 'feature'. Just think for a second - wide bevel exponentially increases the maintenance of a razor. The slightest damage to the edge and you have to spend hours rehoning it.

I think one of the things that makes this site stand out among the rest is the far deeper level of expertise we have here. Which means that when there is false information it gets corrected. I've been around for about 6 years now and there is a huge difference with other shaving sites where the most important thing seems to be 'everybody's opinion is equally good'. Where I come from true is true and false is false, and lack of understanding is not a carte blanche to simply make stuff up.

And yes, those early makers didn't have electron microscopes, they didn't even have thermometers - hence most of their razors are junk as far as shaving goes. Insisting on doing everything by trial and error instead of learning from other people's experience or using the most rudimentary method for performing a job when there is far better stuff available, that in my view is a hallmark of stupidity.
Yes, it can be done, but why would somebody value their time so little or be so arrogant to keep reinventing the wheel.