Thread: Newbs and the wiki

Originally Posted by gssixgun

...
You all need to go back and re-read Slart's /Ben's last post then re-read it again...

Really grasp what he said there, because he hit the nail dead center...

"Forums are designed for discussion, not an information repository.
Think of the Wiki more as a manual, and the forums as the "tech support".

Maybe therein lies the rub...a fundamental difference in the way SRP is percieved. How a person understands the importance and function of SRP drastically modifies their experience of it. In the leadership realm this is called vision and mission. When everybody is on the same page with the vision (what SRP is supposed to be) and everybody is on the same page with the mission (what SRP is supposed to do in order to make the vision a reality), you don't run into these kind of issues. As I think this through, my mind goes, "Yeah, this is EXACTLY why this thread got started." New guys come in with one understanding of what SRP is/does, and clash with seasoned guys who have a different understanding of what SRP is/does.

1. Are we here to collect the finest information on the contemporary art of straight shaving (or is it wet shaving?--there's a difference) and codify that information based on a wide range of experience and authority, and then provide that information to prospective enthusiasts/shavers?

2. Are we here to provide a community where one on one education of newcomers in the ins and outs of straight shaving (or safety shaving, or wet shaving in general) is available?

3. Are we here to provide a community for hobbyists who want to share their techniques, new discoveries, etc. for the expressed benefit of other hobbyists who have their own techniques, discoveries, etc. to share?

I'm sure it's a hybrid of the three, but I think new guys come in viewing SRP more like Vision #2. That rubs against guys who see SRP more like Vision #3 or #1 because they're primary interest in SRP is not hand holding new guys who are afraid of slitting their throats and/or are painfully ignorant of all that SR shaving entails (I admittedly fall into the latter).

Obviously what's happening here is drawing people in. I know I signed up after reading several threads and liking what I saw here in the form of the knowledge base, the numer of active experienced users, and the general community. But I'm certain that each person's perception of why SRP is here is different, and possibly evolves as the person gains more experience.

As a tacked on final thought: I joined SRP after reading the Wiki twice, and several hours worth of thread reading. I joined because I still had questions I wanted to ask, and saw a community of enthusiasts who seemed willing to help.

Jim,

P.S.>>>I don't usually have the time I've had this morning to screw around, but if there's a process for adding to the wiki, editing other's writing, etc. someone PM me and I'll help out as I have time.

SRP is whatever you want it to be. As long as you don't troll or try to scam the membership, things are pretty lenient around here.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

What are some questions that you would suggest? I'll write up answers tomorrow.

Just the common repeatitive newbie questions the OP was talking about. I feel Most questions or problems that I have, have been encountered thousands of times by thousands of people. I doubt that these things are specific to me as I'm not pioneering any new grounds. Therefore I suspect my question has been posted here many times by many people. I look to the FAQ and the wiki and those may touch on the subject but not really give me the specific info I need. I keep thinking that my question has to be common. I don't want to waste anyone's time by asking cause I'm sure the info is here and I just need to find it. I usually do eventually, mostly by searching with google. I've thougt to my self the there should be a section in the FAQ for newbies broken down to there topics i.e. Newbie questions on stropping, newbie questions on honing, newbie questions on shaving etc...I'm just generalizing here.
I love this place and all the information and socializing centered around common interests. I like the personalities from grumpy old men to green behind the ear pups to wondering idiots (like myself). I'm not complaining about anything here I am just suggesting something that might help alleviate some of the newbie question repitition. I would continue to be more than satisfied with SRP if Nothing changed and no one posted anything new ever (I would be sad though). There is probably more than a few life times worth of info here already (I just have to find it. jk).

Originally Posted by smgunn

Just the common repeatitive newbie questions the OP was talking about. I feel Most questions or problems that I have, have been encountered thousands of times by thousands of people. I doubt that these things are specific to me as I'm not pioneering any new grounds. Therefore I suspect my question has been posted here many times by many people. I look to the FAQ and the wiki and those may touch on the subject but not really give me the specific info I need. I keep thinking that my question has to be common. I don't want to waste anyone's time by asking cause I'm sure the info is here and I just need to find it. I usually do eventually, mostly by searching with google. I've thougt to my self the there should be a section in the FAQ for newbies broken down to there topics i.e. Newbie questions on stropping, newbie questions on honing, newbie questions on shaving etc...I'm just generalizing here.
I love this place and all the information and socializing centered around common interests. I like the personalities from grumpy old men to green behind the ear pups to wondering idiots (like myself). I'm not complaining about anything here I am just suggesting something that might help alleviate some of the newbie question repitition. I would continue to be more than satisfied with SRP if Nothing changed and no one posted anything new ever (I would be sad though). There is probably more than a few life times worth of info here already (I just have to find it. jk).

Well, the FAQ is broken down by subject area, so I guess that part of your request is already covered.

As to "Newbie questions on _______", I'd really need you to be more specific. I answer a lot of questions, so I'm not sure what specific questions you might be referring to.

If you, or anyone else, has SPECIFIC questions you would like to see added to the FAQ, please feel free to post them here or PM them to me. I can't answer questions if I don't know what the questions are.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I got news for ya those of us that are honing and restoring are busy doing that...
It is hard enough to get a thread together let alone for us to learn how to put it in the Wiki... Do you realize how much time it takes some of us with limited computer skills and slow Internet to put those illustrated guides together???
Not to mention that each thread that presents a new idea which needs to be distilled though the forum process before it goes to the Wiki... The worst thing that can happen is BS info in the Wiki here at SRP, we are known to have proved info not BS and that won't change...

I do a Beginners Tips post every month , every month somebody says, this should go in the Wiki, yet NOBODY takes the time to do it.. I do the tips, you want them in the Wiki have at it... I don't know how, nor do I have the time to learn

Remember what Dylan said about a re-rant?? there it was, and I bet not one person on this thread takes that to heart and does any Wiki work except maybe Birnado he seems like he actually might

This is your house too, you want it cleaned up ??? pick up a broom and get to work

End of rant... and my apologies

If you have a way to get me the words and photos I'll be more than happy to put together illustrated guides. I can even do them as a downloadable .pdf if that floats the boat. I don't have enough experience on the shaving end to offer much advice other than my limited experiences. But I do have a good bit of Photoshop experience and the odd bit with Illustrator. I'm more than happy to put guides together if folks who are experienced on the sharp side of things want me to.

You've got experience with hones and the whatnot. I've got experience with pixels and coffee.

I have no idea why I'm putting this emoticon in other than that it amuses me greatly.

TY

I will be in touch by pm as I have tons of ideas but I don't have the Computer Skills to do them

Originally Posted by diyguy

In any event ……. in an effort to be constructive and carry my share of water, I’ll commit over the next week or two to compile a list of topics/changes that I - as a newbie - would personally find useful in the FAQ/Wiki sections. It just might be useful to get a newbie’s perspective - then, again, it may not??? Would this be helpful or an annoying distraction from a Junior Member?

I think that would be very useful. It seems that 'hard to find answers to the newbie questions' has been brought up several times, so specifics will be great. Of course, some of these may not be appropriate to answer (i.e. 'Tell me which exact razor, strop, and hone I need to buy' is a very common beginner's question, but there simply isn't a single answer, and while I can just pick one thing that would work for sure for everybody, I don't want to make the decision on their behalf and).

I agree there is no quick answer to the "which blah" should I get, but I do think meaningful answers can be constructed. For example, I have my own FAQ under development, and this is my own answer for "What is a good starter razor?"

Width – In my opinion, the easiest widths to shave with are 5/8, 11/16, 6/8, and 13/16. There are a few reasons these sizes are optimal. These sizes are wide enough to allow you to easily see the angle of the blade to your face, and maintaining a proper shaving angle is essential. These sizes are easy to maneuver around your face and reach all areas you will want to shave. These sizes are very common; the rules of supply and demand therefore dictate that razors in this size range will be affordable.

Point – The easiest types of points to start with are the “rounded” ones. These include round points, muted square points, rounded or muted oblique points, muted barber’s notches, etc. The reason these points are easier to start with is that the rounding helps reduce the chances you will cut yourself with the point. You certainly can start with a square or spike point, but you’ll have to be more careful of where the point of the razor is.

Grind – As I see it, there are two schools of thought when it comes to grind

-Tough Love: This would be starting wit a full hollow razor. A full hollow grind will flex while you are shaving; this makes it less forgiving of a poor shaving technique. As a result, if your technique is poor your shaves will be poor too. This will force you to improve your technique rapidly, or else you will suffer poor shaves. The downside is that your shaves will probably be poor to start.

-Coddling: This would be starting with a half hollow or “heavier” razor. The heavy grinds do not flex while you are shaving. They also have a greater inertia, so they feel like they “plow through” stubble. As a result, it is easier to get a good shave from a heavy grind, even if your technique is not great. The potential downside, however, is that you will not be forced to improve your shave technique, so your development may stagnate.

Steel – I really don’t think the type of steel matters, so long as you choose a quality razor

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Feel free to put all, some, or none into the SRP FAQ as you see fit

Speaking as someone who has gone thru the newb to experienced member cycle on other forums i'm on (newb on here though) I'd say both sides of the argument have valid points.

Yes it is frustrating to answer the same questions over and over again when a thread search or look thru the wiki could provide the answers.. when newbs do this it very often leads to NHS (or Newb Hate Syndrome). I've left some places because of how blunt responses have been to some simple questions.

On the other side of the coin when approaching a new subject, the reference material can be intimidating and hard to search thru because half the time the beginner isn't sure of the question they're trying to ask. Also remember that the only way a newb has to engage the community is by asking questions. Allows them to get to know people, for people to get to know them and to integrate into the community at large.

after all, community is the important thing on a good forum, if people used it purely for reference and never asked questions, it might be a pretty quiet place.

FYI: Default behavior is wiki search is no longer to try and go to the page.

Example: Now when you search on Coticule, it will bring up a list of all pages listing coticule instead of the Coticule wiki page.