Thread: Not quite shave ready but close. What's wrong?

You'll need something between the soft Ark and Ark black. Possibly try and find a Barbers Hone, they are in the 6k-12k range.

The best plan would be to buy several synthetic hones to fill the gap between the soft ark and the blk surgical ark probably 4k and 8k

Originally Posted by BobH

Nothing looks wrong with the razor and should hone up fine. Honing a straight razor is possibly similar to sharpening chisels and planes but really is a different animal needing a different skill set. You do have the tools for sharpening chisels and hones which will not entirely do for honing a straight razor. So, yes there is an equipment problem but I think it is with your available sharpening tools not the razor.

A mirrored bevel is nice but if the sides don't meet as in the bevel is set it means little.

No strop expert either but can't say any strop I bought that was suitable for stropping a straight razor ever needed to be smoothed with emery paper.

Usually a 1K hone is good for setting a bevel on a blade with some chips. If the blade is decent and the chips are small enough a 3K hone should work as a bevel setter. Next I would go to an 8K hone and use a 12K hone as a finishing hone. Then a few laps on a Crox pasted balsa strop followed by normal stropping of 10 on canvas and 60 or so on leather. Then the shave test. Where you honing gear fits in the grit range I have no idea. Again if the sides of the bevel look scratch free and mirror like means little if the bevel sides don't meet at the edge all along the blade. I believe your bevel is not fully set in the first place.

I would tend to shelve the idea of how much you know about sharpening from doing chisels and planes for now. I would look at honing a straight razor as a brand new skill to learn and get the appropriate hones to get the job done properly instead of making do. Then do what the guides say to for honing and do it with the equipment recommended in them.

Bob

I would have to +1 this. I think Bob took a lot of time to type this out and respond and it seems dead on at least IMO. Sharpening skills do transfer from one thing to another but each one has it's own specifics too that don't transfer over. Creating a burr is one that I can think of off the top of my head. It can be useful in sharpening a knife but is not focused on in honing a razor per se. On the plus side you are learning a lot with this razor and if you keep at it you will get it and then it is a skill that you will have for life that is useful. Good luck. My 2 cents.

You can put all your stones in a drawer and get a Norton 4/8k. You can do every thing with that and nothing without it. Or equivalent Ks.
Your driving a loaded truck and going from first gear to 10th. Lug lug lug stall :<0)

Originally Posted by 10Pups

You can put all your stones in a drawer and get a Norton 4/8k. You can do every thing with that and nothing without it. Or equivalent Ks.
Your driving a loaded truck and going from first gear to 10th. Lug lug lug stall :<0)

Good comparison! I almost ordered a Norton 4/8k when I first got into working with wood hand tools. I went oils instead since they don't require as much dressing to keep flat. I guess I should have gone with the Nortons!

I sand paint finishes (along with the wood working) for a living and totally get not skipping grits. You could never go from P800 to polishing in one step. It always goes P800, P1200, P1500, P2000, course buff, fine polish. So I hear your comparison!

You do not have an edge, what you are looking at is the bevel, an edge is where the bevels meet all the way from heel to toe.

If you had an edge or close to it, the 600 grit diamond plate wiped it out. And if that did not the 200 grit surely did, way too course of stone for honing.

As said for razor honing, you need much finer stones than woodworking.

A1k for bevel setting, 4k for polishing and 8k for finishing, a proper clean linen and leather strop for razors. Stropping is your final polish, the slightest grit will be much larger than the smallest grit hone… and ruin all your hard work in one stroke.

Forget about paste until you can set a bevel and finish an edge, you should be able to comfortably shave off an 8K edge. Forget about Natural stones until you can hone. Your Black Ark possibly could be used to finish, if it is a High grit Ark and properly finished for razors. Right now you don’t need a finisher you need a bevel setter and polishers.

Trust me you are not the first knife/tool guy to try and make the conversion to razors, many give up… because they think they know. The tools are similar, but not the same, neither is the technique.

A razor edge is much more fragile than a knife or tool edge. At this point do nothing until you have the proper tools and are positive of a correct course of action or send it out for honing and learn to shave.
Welcome to the forum…

Originally Posted by Euclid440

You do not have an edge, what you are looking at is the bevel, an edge is where the bevels meet all the way from heel to toe.

If you had an edge or close to it, the 600 grit diamond plate wiped it out. And if that did not the 200 grit surely did, way too course of stone for honing.

As said for razor honing, you need much finer stones than woodworking.

A1k for bevel setting, 4k for polishing and 8k for finishing, a proper clean linen and leather strop for razors. Stropping is your final polish, the slightest grit will be much larger than the smallest grit hone… and ruin all your hard work in one stroke.

Forget about paste until you can set a bevel and finish an edge, you should be able to comfortably shave off an 8K edge. Forget about Natural stones until you can hone. Your Black Ark possibly could be used to finish, if it is a High grit Ark and properly finished for razors. Right now you don’t need a finisher you need a bevel setter and polishers.

Trust me you are not the first knife/tool guy to try and make the conversion to razors, many give up… because they think they know. The tools are similar, but not the same, neither is the technique.

A razor edge is much more fragile than a knife or tool edge. At this point do nothing until you have the proper tools and are positive of a correct course of action or send it out for honing and learn to shave.
Welcome to the forum…

Not trying to sound rude but that's not what I wrote in the earlier post. I used the 200 grit to put a smile back into the blade since it was out of shape (i.e. used it to reshape only). I worked back to the Black Ark stone from there (through all the grits). I'm aware that you can't polish 200 grit scratches.

Right… so for sure you removed the edge. What did you use to set the bevel?

You can not polish an edge that does not exist.

Originally Posted by rodb

Probably the best thing for almost any new SR user is to try and find a experienced user near you and get some hands on lessons (stropping, honing, shaving etc) you can do a advanced member search for location. Also including your location (at least state) would help.

Hands on local help was the best thing I did as a newbie

+1 to rodb's comment.

Before I started shaving with a straight I had years of time in with antique woodworking tools making post and rung chairs with only hand tools, from logs.
So I could sharpen everything from broadaxes to marking chisels...plane blades, draw knives, spoke shaves you name it.

Razors are just in a place all of their own - just dipping your elbow down an inch or two can take you from wonderful shaver to camp saw...
In less time that it takes to sit through a bad movie one of the Mentors can save you much time and frustration -

Originally Posted by 777funk

That would be a big jump, no I brought it back up through to the black (200, 300, 400, 600, soft ark, then black).

I used the 5/8" width of the blade and it's natural angle as the bevel set (no tape), flat to the stone, and used stroke patterns to encourage a slight smile shape.

I don't know if I read this wrong. You are using 200, 300, 400 and 600 grit? Correct me if I am wrong and you mean 2000, 3000, 4000 and 6000 because I'm no expert but those stones are way to harsh for honing a straight razor. If you were honing a kitchen knife maybe. Its something that takes a ton of time and if you don't have the right equipment you'll never get the job done. You should definitely read the forums on honing and ask a member who knows how to hone for help. I learned the hard way after wasting a ton of steel and ruining many edges and I'm still not able to get some of my blades truly shave ready.... Sometimes you have to unlearn things to learn things. Maybe you want to take it from scratch but then again its your razor and what you do with it is your business. Just my 2 cents.

777funk, I don't mean to sound rude, but you're going through your honing learning curve as if you possess some previous knowledge of razor craft, and you don't. One good way to learn would be to send the razor to a honemeister for sharpening, and ask them what they did, what stone progressions, etc. I personally have never used anything coarser than a 1000k grit. Prior to razor honing, I was an expert knife sharpener. That skill taught me NOTHING about razor honing. Does the touch and feel of knife sharpening carry over to razor sharpening? Initially, no, but after you gain a little skill with razor honing, there may be some transfer of skills. I learned by merging the methods of Gsixguns and Lynn Abrams and lot's of practice. Good luck.