Thread: Not quite shave ready but close. What's wrong?

Originally Posted by 777funk

Right and all of my grit statements made were regarding the diamond blocks. I mentioned the black arkie is likely ballpark to 3-4k (compared to sharpening tools using similar wet/dry sandpaper taped to a granite tile).

My reply was based on this

I started with oils because they didn't require as much flattening as the wet abrasive impregneted stones. But the tradeoff is that they're not graded by grit and they are a little slow cutting.

So that is normal...As to oil or water, most stones out there are used with water. Arkies are one of the exceptions.

Originally Posted by Splashone

So that is normal...As to oil or water, most stones out there are used with water. Arkies are one of the exceptions.

Right! I mispoke there or wasn't specific enough. I meant by 'wet' (generically), the usual abrasive block stones sold by Norton, Shapton, and the like.

And if you like your doctor… you can keep your doctor…

Yea…Not so much.

Dude, relax we are trying to help you. You do not need to defend everything you write…

Really we are a friendly bunch… well pretty much…


Pencil grid them and get to work.

Forget the Black Ark rating they do not produce a stria pattern so cannot be equivalent rated. They are rated by graded by density that does not correlate with grits and by the way there are several different grit ratings in use. Performance is more important that the actual grit number.

Black and Translucent are capable of much higher equivalent finishes if properly prepped and can vary from side to side.

I have use Arks for over 40 years but only finish on Arks after a 12k synthetic super stone.

Love the ark edge.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

And if you like your doctor… you can keep your doctor…

Yea…Not so much.

Dude, relax we are trying to help you. You do not need to defend everything you write…

...

Ha ha and sorry! I felt a little misunderstood on a post or two about what I was trying to accomplish with the course grit (reshape) and ended up getting in defense mode. Sorry! I'll chill out now... lol: )

Thanks for the help so far guys.

I like the stone you've got there! Mine looks similar but I usually only oil the top. Yours looks nice and slick! I use naptha mixed with mineral oil as my honing oil.

If I read this correct, you are going from a diamond plate to soft ark, then finishing on a black ark? If so, I would recommend getting a synthetic like an 8k norton in between the arkies. That's based on some of my own experiences. I could not get a good shave when I went from a soft Ark to a black Ark.

By the way, don’t lap an Ark with a diamond plate, Arks will eat a diamond plate and the HF plates are too small for your stone.

Loose grit is best, but Wet & Dry sand paper will work.

I use water on my Arks with Smith’s honing solution, a water soluble lubricant. I have used oil but wash the stone with Simple Green after, to remove the oil.

Does not really matter both give a good finish, oil is just a little bit finer, I think.

The stone in the pic has water on it, I have had it over 40 years, it is like glass an gives a super edge, especially with a micro bevel.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

By the way, don’t lap an Ark with a diamond plate, Arks will eat a diamond plate and the HF plates are too small for your stone.

Loose grit is best, but Wet & Dry sand paper will work.

I use water on my Arks with Smith’s honing solution, a water soluble lubricant. I have used oil but wash the stone with Simple Green after, to remove the oil.

Does not really matter both give a good finish, oil is just a little bit finer, I think.

The stone in the pic has water on it, I have had it over 40 years, it is like glass an gives a super edge, especially with a micro bevel.

My stone hasn't earned it's 40 years patina yet. Yours looks like something that would get handed down through the generations. Hopefully my kids won't throw mine out after I'm dead... lol Not that I'd care anyways after I'm done here!

As far as lapping the stone, I've never done it but I've read Alumina Zirconia on a flat plate works well in course grits. I've got lots of wet/dry Silicon Carbide but mostly 400 grit and finer. I have a handful of 36 to 220 grit belts in Aluminum Zirconia. I may give that a try if the stone proves to be out of flat.

I just sharpened using the black after a flattening. I'd say there are still spots that are .002" out of flat here and there and sort of convex (rise in the center, dipping edges VERY slightly).

I shaved with it and it skips along my face. It is shaving but not good enough.

So I'm now convinced that my Black Arkie is not fine enough to be the finisher. I had the razor edge looking like a mirror yesterday. Now it's back to a dull satin look from the black arkie.

EDIt: I just sharpened with a piece of Nikken P3000 wet/dry taped to granite tile and this is a good deal finer than the black Arkie. I'm getting a mirror finish from the P3000. The Arkie leaves it a little bit dull/matte.

So maybe I just found my problem.

OK.......

Stick with me here.

I think you should just send this razor off to be honed if you want to shave with it. I will do it for free and use the same stones you have just so you know what a shave from a razor honed on arkies feels or should feel like and in the process I will loan you one of mine till you get yours back. You just have to pay for shipping. However if you must do this on your own then this is what I would do.

I am a huge proponent of using arkies. However you need to know where to use it and how to use it on a straight razor. And you need to know how an arkie abrades metal in order to understand how to make the stone perform where you want it to perform. If you are saying that your black ark is performing at a 3-4k level, then that is too low for finishing razors. So to everyone telling him to get a 8k stone to use in-between his soft ark and black ark, I am guessing you guys didn't pay attention to what he said because that would be like going from a 1k(soft ark) to a norton 8k to a 3-4k( black ark) finish. Yes you can finish on the black ark but it needs to be prepared properly. I am not going to discuss how to prep a black ark for finishing razors as I have typed it several times in the large arkansas thread on here. I will post a link to that thread at the end.

Basically what you need to do 777 is stop and breath. Never hone frustrated. I am assuming you bought a straight razor to shave with right? And a fine straight razor you bought. Now being it is a vintage straight and not garaunteed to be shave ready. If it were my razor I would have checked to see if it had a frown first. You already did that so were good there. Then after that if there was no frown or after the frown was fixed I would start my bevel setting process on a 1000 grit stone. No lower. I have had razors with large chips and just nastiness way worse then your razor and never touched it to anything lower than 1000 grit. SO that being said lose the 200-600 grit stones for now. Please. you can pick them back up again when you need to sharpen chisels or later for straights when you really feel that it is absolutely necessary but for now till you get this razor shaving COMFORTABLY don't touch them.

After you have set a bevel with you 1000 grit stone you should conduct some test. The thumb pad test is good and also it should be ables to shave arm and leg hair easily. Your soft ark stone may be about this equivalent. Mine is roughly 1k probably a little finer and I don't really prefer it for setting bevels, In fact I don't really like using the soft ark at all. I personally would suggest getting a synthetic 1k stone like a King. They are cheap enough and on the slightly slow and soft side so you don't have to worry about wasting steel to badly.

After that then you will want to get to a mid stone like 3-5k. No more, no less. Even though you stated that your black ark is about this range I would not suggest using it. It is too hard and slow and probably finer than what you think. The thing with black and translucent arks is you can make them worn out to where all they do is burnish and polish. My black ark is like glass and literally after 1500 laps there will be no swarf in the oil. That is what I use to finish my razors and is much higher than a 3-4k grit equivalent. I would suggest something like a Norton 4k or similar synthetic here for a few reasons. 1 being you know the grit rating for sure. 2 it will be faster than a natural stone. 3 You can get it as a combo with an 8k stone and 4 everyone on this forum for the most part knows how to use a norton 4k/8k combo. So obviously you stay on the 4k(ish) range until the 1k scratches are out.

After the 4k range you should be at the 8k range. Again same goal as above, you want to get rid of the 4k scratches. Only here you should be able to shave comfortably after completing the 8k range. Here is where pressure and technique can not be stressed enough. After you get the 4k scratches out you should do some (10 or so, maybe more) no pressure strokes. This will help make the shave more comfortable. If you go to shave after doing this and it is not very comfortable try another 10-20 no pressure super consistent and even strokes on the 8k.

After the 8k you should be able to shave fine and I wouldn't worry about trying to use a finer stone until after you can consistently make this happen on razors. You also might want to kill whatever edge you have by running it down a glass bottle. That way when you start on the 1k level and it gets sharp you can see that you have actually made progress.

Before you do any of this though you should update your location so you can find out if any of us live near by. And seriously consider my offer. Like I said I will send you a loaner so that you don't have to worry about me trying to jack your razor. I will send you a shave ready razor and one of my favorites (They are all my favorite but this one really performs and I have sent it to several other beginning members that were once in your predicament). All you got to do is pay shipping.

Heres the link to the arkansas thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...-arkansas.html

The Arkie needs to FLAT. .002 isn't flat. A diamond plate is flat within .0005 and should stick to the hone when it is flat