Thread: NOS Escher vs Thuringian

It is hard to say exactly what each of these is without having each in hand. I was the USA distributor for MST Mueller in Germany. They offered NOS Thuringens and just one they called a waterstone. The Thuringens were either already cut stones from old stock or newly sawn from blocks quarried years agon in the Thuringen region.....the same place the Eschers came from. Escher of course is a brand name and dozens of brands out there all offered the same very fine grained blue/grey to green/grey stones. The NOS ones were 5" x 2 1/2" or so and came with a rubbing stone. I think I was getting 4135 to $175 depending on supply, the condition of both faces and whether I had lapped them.

The other stones were either 2" x 8" or 3" x 10" and were quite dark, almost a charcoal grey. They were originally offered to me as Thuringens but research by a friend local to MST revelled they were from the Hunsrueck region. These were very nice stones, cut well but are not Thuringens. They were a good deal less expensive.

That was years agon so no telling what the status is today.

Tony

Originally Posted by zib

Tell me about? Jimmy, check out "timber tools dot com, tell me what you think....

I have been to his website and read his articles describing coticules and Thuringan/Eschers although I have never bought anything from him. I don't agree with his contention that there is no point in going to an Escher after a coticule. I have many times and IME it improves the edge. I agree with thebigspendur about that and for me the Escher leaves a more refined edge.

You know, it wasn't until I read that on his site that I tried going from coticule to Escher, and I certainly disagree with him as well.

Just checked the website. The "eschers" are what MST is showing simply as Thuringens and in the same sizes my NOS stones were.

The "thuringens" are what MST is showing as waterstones. When I was offering these they were Hunsrueck stoones.

Again, not sure what these are without actually seeing them but the photos and sizes are from the MST Mueller website.

Tony

Hey Tony, thanks for the history! It is guys like you that help to keep the facts straight and our members well informed.

I am really dismayed that once again a vendor is spewing misleading information. Since Escher is only a brand name it is a mistake to think they are automatically better than a Thuringen. Based on my personal experience you guys would do well to frequent flea markets and antique sales. That is where I have found most of my Escher/Thuringen/German waterstones for $2-$10.

Hope this helps,

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Just checked the website. The "eschers" are what MST is showing simply as Thuringens and in the same sizes my NOS stones were.

The "thuringens" are what MST is showing as waterstones. When I was offering these they were Hunsrueck stoones.

Again, not sure what these are without actually seeing them but the photos and sizes are from the MST Mueller website.

Tony

I have had both of the hones.

The larger hones is a dark grey stone. It comes in a wooden box with a rubbing stone. It is quite dirty to use but quite a good hone never the less. Mine did not have quality issues but overall I did not find is as flexible as a Belgian coticule.

The smaller stone, the 5" by 2" comes in a cardboard box , also with a rubbing stone. They are coming from a Mr Mueller in Germany who has his own internet sight for dealing with the trade. He doesn't really deal direct with the public.

My smaller stone is the most consistent finishing hone that I have and I rate it very highly indeed. It is a greenish grey in colour and the rubbing stone is a yellowish green. I understand that the colour can vary and that some stones are a blue grey. I don't think the colour issue matters so much. The main point is that the the more expensive (smaller stone) is a finer grit and puts a much smoother finished edge on a blade.

I use mine as a regular finishing hone and find it gives a smoother edge than a Belgian coticule. I do not find the need to use any other finishing pastes after using the hone.

As to price, I think if memory serves me well, I paid about 60 euro about a year ago. For $300 you can purchase an old labelled Escher stone. I don't know if the vintage Eschers are better than this newly cut stone, but I suspect the stone is of a similar quality. What I do know is I am very pleased with the one I own and use it as my finishing hone of preference.

Hope that helps.

Tim Zowada took some great micrographs of different stone surfaces, and the uniformity of the Escher surfaces is obvious. If you also search his site, there are pictures of blades sharpened on various stones:

Zowada Custom Knives - Stone Surfaces

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Well all I can tell you is I have one of Kee's Thuringians and I have a vintage Escher i bought from Tony Miller and though the Thuringian is a fine stone it ain't no Escher. The result I get with the Escher surpasses the Coticule.

Nelson, I'm sure you have a Vintage Escher, complete with labels? You didn't buy one of the so called NOS Escher's

Thanks everyone for the info. His site, to me, is misleading at best as was his email. Thanks Again.....

Originally Posted by English

As to price, I think if memory serves me well, I paid about 60 euro about a year ago. For $300 you can purchase an old labelled Escher stone. I don't know if the vintage Eschers are better than this newly cut stone, but I suspect the stone is of a similar quality. What I do know is I am very pleased with the one I own and use it as my finishing hone of preference.

Hope that helps.

Buying from MST direct makes sense by the looks of it.

Originally Posted by Kees

Buying from MST direct makes sense by the looks of it.

For the prices MST has them listed for, I would not mind trying one of the small 5" x 1" "NOS Eschers." How does one go about buying directly from them?