Thread: ONE COTICULE HONING

Thanks Bart,

I definitely appreciate your devoted passion to the Coticule an your elabote explanation here. I would agree whole heartedly that it is entirely possible to hone a razor with the Coticule as your only stone. Based on your explanation the repeatablility of the process may be there, but the amount of time and the variation of the amount of times you may have to go back to the stone, let alone the taping process would in my mine apply for the hobbiest at best.

I would be interested in the type of rubbing stone you are using and the grit comparison of the various slurries you generate if possible and to know if there is a way to describe coming up with the slurries ie, a lite slurry is 20 rubs with X type of slurry stone, a medium is 20 rubs with the same or different slurry stone.

I am experimenting with these methods as you introduce them and usually with 20-50 razors to determine the benefits. It would nice if you would indicate how many razors you do these with before you introduce them to us.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks,

Lynn

Bart, excellent post. If I may I would like to offer an alternative to those who don't care to use the tape on the spine (such as myself).

The difference I'd recommend is when you are done with the slurry clear the coticule with water. Next raise another light slurry and without using it clear it off the stone. The object here is to renew the stone's surface. Then with water only perform circular honing motions on each side 20 to 30 rounds with some light pressure. Make sure each side is given an equal number of rounds. Back hone the razor once or twice. Then hone forward with water about 20 - 50 times without any pressure. Then forward hone with a wet lather 20 - 50 times without pressure.

Regards,
EL

Thanks Bart as always your knowledge and insight benefit us all, and i appreciate the time and effort that you give us !

since I am a recently converted coticule guy, you method fits right in with a planned experiment, I have a 7 day set of razors (this will provide an excellent test group since they are all identical) , and I now have 3 coticules, a pink ( a very fast cutter) , a green combo, and a yellow, so with my novice hands, I will try your new method this weekend and report my results.

Dank u voor alle uw hulp, bent u uitstekend

Originally Posted by RayG

Did you try just water on the coticule after adding tape, Bart? I wonder if the light slurry is really necessary. Thanks for the effort you put into this, Bart. I will certainly give it a try.

Yes I did. But it required 2 to 3 layers of tape. As I tried illustrating with the drawing, when the angles between the main and the second bevel alter only very little, it takes a wider secondary bevel to achieve enough refinement. My idea was to to create a narrow strip with light slurry, not too wide, so that the Coticule with water can still offer some meaningful refinement along with its polishing qualities. This actually was the step that kept escaping me during many other experiments in the past year.

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

Hi Bart,

How would using a BBW in this progression affect the procedure?

-Chief

It would defeat the purpose.
That said, you could experiment with using any other fine hone as replacement of the Coticule with light slurry of Step5 (right after the edge is taped).

Originally Posted by Lynn

Thanks Bart,

I definitely appreciate your devoted passion to the Coticule an your elabote explanation here. I would agree whole heartedly that it is entirely possible to hone a razor with the Coticule as your only stone. Based on your explanation the repeatablility of the process may be there, but the amount of time and the variation of the amount of times you may have to go back to the stone, let alone the taping process would in my mine apply for the hobbiest at best.

I would be interested in the type of rubbing stone you are using and the grit comparison of the various slurries you generate if possible and to know if there is a way to describe coming up with the slurries ie, a lite slurry is 20 rubs with X type of slurry stone, a medium is 20 rubs with the same or different slurry stone.

I am experimenting with these methods as you introduce them and usually with 20-50 razors to determine the benefits. It would nice if you would indicate how many razors you do these with before you introduce them to us.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks,

Lynn

So far, I 've done over 20 razors in total with this method. I have not needed to go back to the hones once. I have placed one "Coticule" aside during the honing and started over on another one. That stone was probably not even a true Coticule: it was a lapped piece of rock that I picked up at an abandoned Coticule mining pit, it had a cyanish hue. The rest of the Coticules worked fine, but I have limited the tests to those that generate slurry (the vast majority of Coticules), without the need for special tricks. I have a couple of extremely hard specimen, that don't generate slurry with the normal procedure. I will try those in the next weeks.
The average time to go through the entire procedure is less than 15 minutes, on most razors so far, including a couple that came off 600 grit after a restoration job. There was a fellow straight razor user here, about 10 days ago, who relied mainly on the Dovo pastes for sharpening. Reestablishing flat bevel faces on his razor took me almost an hour, but I was talking and pausing all the time. Checking with the microscope told me I was catching up, otherwise I would have went to the DMT-600 first.

I have two slurry stones, both Coticule of course . They're nothing special. I don't count rubbing laps. I create a slurry with milky consistency for the bevel correction stage (step 3). It's not that critical. For the other steps that involve slurry, I use a much lighter slurry, maybe adding as much water as there's slurry on the hone. As long as it's a faint slurry, it seems ok.

Originally Posted by currentman

Thanks Bart as always your knowledge and insight benefit us all, and i appreciate the time and effort that you give us !

since I am a recently converted coticule guy, you method fits right in with a planned experiment, I have a 7 day set of razors (this will provide an excellent test group since they are all identical) , and I now have 3 coticules, a pink ( a very fast cutter) , a green combo, and a yellow, so with my novice hands, I will try your new method this weekend and report my results.

Dank u voor alle uw hulp, bent u uitstekend

Thanks, I look forward to your results. I'm especcially curious to the results of someone with "novice hands", as you put it. I aimed this method at being as fool proof as possible. No offence, I hope.

Thanks,
Bart.

After using this method, I'm assuming you'd need to use tape to touch up the razor due to the double bevel?

-Chief

Thanks again Bart.

It will be interesting to see how many people can hone 20 razors or one for that matter, at a pace of 15 minutes each using your methods here. As I am following the same protocols with an 8x3 yellow Coticule, I have not been able to match that pace yet, even on new razors. The real key to me is step three. The 2-20 possible trips to the hone are for real, although the new ones are only taking 4-6 trips so far. I am also liking the shave with 10 strokes of chromium oxide after the stone a little better than just of the stone and leather as well. For some reason, the 50 finishing laps on water is taking me over the edge, so to speak, but if I limit to one or two times on the stone at 10 strokes each, I get there. So far I have only used carbon razors, but I think I want to try a few stainless and see if what happens.

This is fun.

Regards,

Lynn

Thanks for another useful post Bart. Personally I find setting a bevel on a coticule a PITA . If that is the only game in town than so be it but having messed with a few razors and various coticules I decided that going through the extra time involved just to say that I did wasn't worth the effort. I'll stick with my 1 and 2K Shapton pros or my DMT 1200. I think you have a DMT 1200 too don't you ? A very efficiant bevel setter.

Another difference in our honing philosophy is when to apply the tape. Since the bevel setting is putting more wear on the spine than any other part of the process I prefer to tape from the beginning and set the bevel. I don't like the idea of the double bevel that would be the result of introducing the tape later in the process. I know that some feel it makes for a stronger edge.

Like Lynn, if I understand him correctly, I prefer an edge that is keener than a coticule by itself will provide so I will typically go to the Escher or maybe the Shapton 15k pro to finish. The edge a coticule leaves is smooth but IME not as comfortable for me as that of the forementioned hones.

Great thread. As a hobbyist who has been struggling to get consistent results from the coticule, this is good info to try out.

Jordan

Originally Posted by Bart

Coticules are extremely versatile hones. When used with slurry, they remove steel quite rapidly. When used with water they are among the very best options for finishing a razor's edge. The challenging part of honing a razor on nothing but one Coticule is bridging the small gap of keenness that lies between the edge left by the slurry and the sharpness required to finish on water. The method, here presented, provides a simple yet elegant solution for this issue.
To keep matters as uncomplicated as possible this method relies on as little honing test as possible. For this reason, the guideline must be followed strictly.

Required Items.
- a straight razor in undamaged condition. It may be dull, or not shaving well for whatever reason, as long as there are no flaws at the edge that can be seen with the naked eye. (no missing chips or obvious corrosion).
- a serviceable Coticule. It must be lapped flat and have chamfered or rounded edges.
- a Coticule slurry stone.
- a cup of water
- some electrical insulation tape
- a glass jar or a drinking glass

Method.
Step 1. Make sure that the razor does not shave arm hair. If it does, run the razor without any significant pressure, edge down, over the bottom of the glass jar. Check again to make sure that it no longer shaves arm hair.

Step 2. Raise slurry on the Coticule. Sprinkle some water on the surface and rub with the slurry stone till the fluid has a milky consistency.

Step 3. Place the razor on the Coticule and perform half X-strokes, with the index finger pressing down at the middle of the razor, near the spine (apply slight pressure with the finger and not with the wrist). Perform diagonal back and forth motions without flipping the blade. Count 30 laps. Flip the blade and copy 30 back and forth strokes on the other side.
Check if the razor shaves arm hair. If not, repeat the 30 laps on both sides, same fashion. Continue doing this, till the razor manages to shave arm hair. Only then, proceed to the next step. You may have to repeat this 2 to 20 times, depending on the initial condition of the razor. If it takes a long time, try keeping an eye on the width of both bevel sides. If they start showing unequal width, spend some extra laps on the narrowest side. On most undamaged edges, with a normal bevel width, it won’t take longer than 2 or 3 times 30 laps.

Step 4. Once the razor shaves arm hair, refresh the slurry, make it slightly thinner than before.
Perform about 30 regular X-strokes with as little pressure as you can while steadily guiding the razor.
This amount is given for a typical 6"X2" (15cmX5cm) Coticule. Adjust the lap count according to the particular Coticule.

Step 5. Add one layer of electrical insulation tape to the spine. Rinse the razor. Do not rinse the Coticule but add a splash of clear water. The slurry should be quite watery. Perform 30 X-stroking laps.

Step 6. Completely rinse the Coticule and sprinkle clean water on top. Rinse the razor. Finish with 50 laps, using only clear water on the hone. Remove the tape and gently dry the razor with a piece of tissue paper.

Step 7. Strop the razor on a good hanging strop. Keep the strop reasonably taut and apply light pressure on the razor, just enough to develop a light drawing sensation. Strop 30 laps on a clean linen and 60 laps on clean leather.

Elaboration.
There are two counterintuitive features to this method. The first is to dull the edge prior to aiming for flat and completely developed bevel faces, which is a crucial condition to be met, before the edge can be refined to a comfortable shaving keenness. The reason for starting with a razor that does not shave arm hair, is to take the guesswork out of knowing when the aforementioned goal is accomplished. Razors often have arc-shaped bevel faces, due to the use of pasted strops for maintaining the shaveability of the edge. Eventually the arc introduced in the bevel of the razor becomes so curved that the shaving comfort is compromised. At that point, it is time for honing, however the edge is still capable of shaving arm hair. When we remove this shaving ability in the slightest of ways, by running the edge once over a glass surface, we know with absolute certainty that the edge will not pass that test again before the bevel faces are completely flat and extending fully. A second advantage is that with this method, also all small blemishes accumulated by edge deterioration, will be gone. Our new edge will live in fresh and uncompromised steel.

The second feature that might seem counterintuitive, is the application of one layer of tape halfway through the honing process. Slurry on a Coticule abrades steel with ample speed, but it is also somewhat detrimental for the extremely fine tip of the edge. The impact of the tip with the abrasive garnets in the slurry has a rounding effect. At the same time there is also a sharpening effect due to steel being removed of the bevel faces. At a certain level on the keenness scale, the dulling effect neutralizes the sharpening effect. One could hone the razor into oblivion on the hone with slurry, never would it take a keener edge than that predetermined level.
When no slurry is used on a Coticule, the garnets stay safely embedded into the surface of the hone, only protruding with a small part of their body. They quickly loose their bite and no fresh garnets are exposed to continuously rejuvenate the cutting force of the hone. As a result the Coticule becomes a very slow and shallow polisher, superior for smoothing, but almost useless for refining the edge.For this reason, simply stepping up from a Coticule with slurry to one with merely water, will not deliver good keenness. Gradually diluting the slurry helps, but it is an inconsistent method that requires a lot of honing skills for vacillating success.
But there is a way for exponentially boosting the performance of extremely slow hones. If the Coticule, used with water, is allowed to work on a narrow strip near at apex of the blade, it will remove enough steel to refine the edge, gradually slowing down as a new flat region grows. One layer of tape added to the spine is all it takes to divert all refining action to the tip to the bevel. Because the new, secondary bevel is only altered by the smallest possible degree, it must be allowed enough width, in order to refine the initial bevel. A drawing should clarify this:


An extensive number of tests with different Coticules on different razors has revealed that the most consistent results are reached when doing a small amount of work with a very watery slurry before finalizing on the Coticule with clean water. A bit of experimentation will reveal the best ratio for each individual stone.

I am sorry but i have to be respectfully disagree with your method.
Lets see what makes me not happy.
at first

your first step making 30 strokes in one side then go to another side and make 30 strokes?
You know and understand i am sure about it. it will not be exact amount of pressure put on both sides?
it is just impossible to put same amount of pressure in 30 strokes on both side of the blade. that is why you are saying pay attention to bevel as soon as you see uneven bevel go head fix it? quesion is why? why not do turn the blade and make normal strokes on both side of the blade?
what is your scientific prove 30 x30 in different sides is better then just regular way making strokes?
I am positive doing 30 stroke on one side and 30 strokes another will end up uneven bevel 90% times.
We are humans not machines to put exact pressures while doing 30 strokes.

in extreme case you will end up making 1400 stroke (including 30 +60 on strop)
Now My questions is this
after setting bevel you are taping back of the blade and making 30 strokes with belgian coticule ? you think this will great a new bevel ? I really don't think so.
Lastly i think spending so much time is just waste of time. You can bring any razor in better condition by using Norton 4/8 a lot less time.
Again I personally have nothing against you but i am against your ideas which i think is not right.
I haven't seen any person come back and say they had great shave off of coticule .You can get great shave off coticule but you will need to go next step pastes or escher's or nakayama.
This is my 002 cent.

RESPECTFULLY
SHAM

Originally Posted by Bart

I'm also planning the creation of a small video to illustrate the presented method.

Good idea. You could be ruthless in the editing and make it short - a sequence of scenes showing how each stage is done, with annotations. As well as a "Director's Cut" full version?

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

what is your scientific prove 30 x30 in different sides is better then just regular way making strokes?

I think it is only better in that it is faster. Accuracy is less important at the early stage. (Other than big mistakes that will ruin the edge, obviously.)

Doing one side at a time might even reduce errors for a beginner.