Thread: Scratches on the bevel

I wanna understand why some people worries a lot about scratches on the bevel of the blade?
Does it matter?
what we need to have edge not the bevel?
if anyone can explain why we need shiny bevel i would appreciate.

Functionally it does not matter as long as the edge is sharp. I am one on my wedges that have big bevels I like them to look their best. I don't want them looking raw and unfinished.

Mike

I personally do not use optics as my primary means
of assessing an edge, so I will only feel sharpness --
if there are still scratches I'm oblivious!

- Scott

I have to agree that if the edge feels sharp and shaves well, then why worry about scratches on the bevel? On the other hand though, it seems to me if the bevel is crisp and shiny then that smoothness should logically follow itelf all the way to the edge, producing a much smoother finish, and a much smoother shave. If the bevel shows scratches, are you suggesting they stop just before they reach the edge, and the edge is smooth anyway? Just asking.


Ray

Originally Posted by rayman

I have to agree that if the edge feels sharp and shaves well, then why worry about scratches on the bevel? On the other hand though, it seems to me if the bevel is crisp and shiny then that smoothness should logically follow itelf all the way to the edge,

sorry to say smoothness or sharpness has nothing to do how your bevel look like

producing a much smoother finish, and a much smoother shave. If the bevel shows scratches, are you suggesting they stop just before they reach the edge,

No they don''t but edge cold be smooth anyway depends on the grit of the stone

and the edge is smooth anyway? Just asking.

i fully understand and asking is ok this is how we learn

Ray

It is ok to ask and learn i always do it myself

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

It is ok to ask and learn i always do it myself

I must admit those are some interesting concepts you are proposing. My understanding of this honing process has always been a little different than that though.

It has been my assumption that we generally start honing at the 1k level to produce a bevel for the base, then go to the following: 4k, 8k, 12k, 16k, finishing stone, .5 paste, maybe .25 past = 60k, then linen, and finally strop. Each step leaves a different looking bevel and edge. All the way to the linnen, the bevel shows a finer and finer scratch pattern. It has been my belief that these scratches are a result of, and not a byproduct of the work done by the stones. At this point the smoothness of the edge should look much finer under a scope. When we go the linen and then the strop I always thought the purpose of that was to smooth out the final peaks in those scratches to produce the finest edge possible, thus if the bevel looks polished, as opposed to scratchy, and without the use of a loop or scope, I would expect that edge to be smoother as well since the smoothness should continue out to it.

I still have to give some more thought to your position though.

Ray

Originally Posted by rayman

I must admit those are some interesting concepts you are proposing. My understanding of this honing process has always been a little different than that though.

It has been my assumption that we generally start honing at the 1k level to produce a bevel for the base, then go to the following: 4k, 8k, 12k, 16k, finishing stone, .5 paste, maybe .25 past = 60k, then linen, and finally strop. Each step leaves a different looking bevel and edge. All the way to the linnen, the bevel shows a finer and finer scratch pattern. It has been my belief that these scratches are a result of, and not a byproduct of the work done by the stones. At this point the smoothness of the edge should look much finer under a scope. When we go the linen and then the strop I always thought the purpose of that was to smooth out the final peaks in those scratches to produce the finest edge possible, thus if the bevel looks polished, as opposed to scratchy, and without the use of a loop or scope, I would expect that edge to be smoother as well since the smoothness should continue out to it.

I still have to give some more thought to your position though.

Ray

Ray This is short example .
Someone takes blade to 1 k and sets the bevel. Next that person goes to sandpaper and just polishes that bevel( not sharpening not edge forward movement . just take sandpaper from 1k to 3k level and polish the bevel not touching the edge.
Now your bevel will be the shines bevel out there but same razor will not cut hair doesn't matter how much force you will use.
By saying this i am trying to make it simple .if you want me to explain more i will be gladly do so.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Ray This is short example .
Someone takes blade to 1 k and sets the bevel. Next that person goes to sandpaper and just polishes that bevel( not sharpening not edge forward movement . just take sandpaper from 1k to 3k level and polish the bevel not touching the edge.
Now your bevel will be the shines bevel out there but same razor will not cut hair doesn't matter how much force you will use.
By saying this i am trying to make it simple .if you want me to explain more i will be gladly do so.

No, there is no need for you to elaborate on your position. You have explained yourself very well.

Thank you,

Ray

I said this in another thread too, but off the hones my bevels look like mirrors, I DO NOT try for this they just do.... I do not concern myself if there is a tiny scratch here either, I never use more than a 40x loupe to check an edge, I don't use a loupe until after the linen, as this will show any micro-chipping very fast....
After 100 laps of leather there are always little scratches on the bevel....

Maybe we are talking about something different when it comes to scratches???????

I just took a fresh look with my 30x stereo scope at a Tim Zowada from Classic, a Livi custom and a Joe Chandler from SRD and a TI Silverwing from Classic. All of these came pre honed by Tim, Lynn and I couldn't say if by Livi and Joe or either Lynn or Don. All shaved great and all have a shiny bevel with uniform and occasional random scratches. None of them are mirror polished bevels.