Thread: Interesting Perspective on the State of American Manhood

Originally Posted by Nightblade

Have a good night and a good shave.

Backatcha Robert.

Bottom line guys.you are what you are,live with it.

Well I took a second and did a little search... The American Spectator, is like so many things written here in the US, merely an opinion piece. So all the rants as to the story being poor journalism go out the window. Its just one mans opinion... And though his leaps may be just that, leaps , his concerns resonate for me. YMMV.

This might be a little off topic but it's worth sharing anyway. I was once in a similar position as GZ,and Trevon, my 16 year old was blind sided by a sucker punch,and was hit with a pipe,one night I was with my 11 year old when my older son recognized my car (i was at blockbuster) and got me to point out the kid the assaulted him, I confronted the youth and after saying that he did it because my son had called him a name,(believe me this word has NEVER come out of his mouth) the little bastard sucker punched me with the same pipe,a piece of metal that attaches to the rear wheel so as to let someone ride on the back wheel.
Well I was carrying a piece,and at the time my first instinst was to throw him through the window of the pizzaria,But I went to my car,put the gun away,and got my girl Comet (115llbs of doberman),and called the cops,while instruting that anyone who ran away was going to get bitten. The cops got there and promtly arrested him as he was a known dirtbag and troublemaker,but the piont is, not that I am the toughest guy in the world ,but after he hit me and saw no reaction,except that I had him over my head,was fear..that he had picked the wrong guy. I could have shot him or held him at gunpoint,but sometimes all you have to do is be a man.The cops begged me to press charges which I did,but the D.A. let him go after six months,and I had a gash on my eyebrow that I put some butterflies on but lost my sence of smell permanantly. If you saw the cut and I had shot him, most would have said he got what was coming to him,BUT it was the same situation,and I would have been the crazed gun toting racist and he would have been the little chiorboy.So sometimes its better to nut up.

My opinion on this subject will probably ruffle some feathers but I haven't read it yet in the prior posts and I think it needs to be said.

I am 33, married and have 2 young kids. I am a Christian as well and try hard to lead my family based on biblical principles. I live my life as an example to the best of my ability to encourage other men my age to be the leaders of thier family. I am not suggesting becoming a tyrant here mind you, rather become patient, loving, caring, accepting and understanding of those in your sphere of influence.

IMO men in America lack accountability and revel in a care free life style that is pushed by our current society's value system and media. Many men have developed a victim's mentality when facing a consequence of thier actions instead of being honest and accountable for themselves.

American men seek the easy way out of difficult situations and that trend is only worsening as our society becomes more lazy and complacent. I have observed the mistakes of my father and many other men and have tried my best not to fall into those snares. I have also learned plenty of good things as well that I incorporate into my life daily. I once walked a treacherous path but realized it and turned from that life. I still pay for my old actions but I also reap the rewards of the current way I live and the juxtaposition of that duality has afforded me a small but valuable bit of wisdom.

America is built around personal freedom and with that comes the personal responsibility to positively affect those around you to maintain our freedoms. I believe that the concepts of tolerance and diversity are destroying our unity and it is up to men to lead by example, extend a hand and truly love one another as Americans.

I don't really want to start a great debate here but I wanted to spit out my view of American men and the issues that I see causing the most trouble. If you disagree I apologize but I am convinced that many of the breakdowns we see in our society could be fixed around the dining room table!

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

My opinion on this subject will probably ruffle some feathers but I haven't read it yet in the prior posts and I think it needs to be said.

I am 33, married and have 2 young kids. I am a Christian as well and try hard to lead my family based on biblical principles. I live my life as an example to the best of my ability to encourage other men my age to be the leaders of thier family. I am not suggesting becoming a tyrant here mind you, rath. er become patient, loving, caring, accepting and understanding of those in your sphere of influence.

IMO men in America lack accountability and revel in a care free life style that is pushed by our current society's value system and media. Many men have developed a victim's mentality when facing a consequence of thier actions instead of being honest and accountable for themselves.

American men seek the easy way out of difficult situations and that trend is only worsening as our society becomes more lazy and complacent. I have observed the mistakes of my father and many other men and have tried my best not to fall into those snares. I have also learned plenty of good things as well that I incorporate into my life daily. I once walked a treacherous path but realized it and turned from that life. I still pay for my old actions but I also reap the rewards of the current way I live and the juxtaposition of that duality has afforded me a small but valuable bit of wisdom.

America is built around personal freedom and with that comes the personal responsibility to positively affect those around you to maintain our freedoms. I believe that the concepts of tolerance and diversity are destroying our unity and it is up to men to lead by example, extend a hand and truly love one another as Americans.

I don't really want to start a great debate here but I wanted to spit out my view of American men and the issues that I see causing the most trouble. If you disagree I apologize but I am convinced that many of the breakdowns we see in our society could be fixed around the dining room table!

I can see where you are coming from, and agree that things can and should be worked out and discussed either with family or peers. I am neither american or religious, not that it is probabIy important, you say we should be accepting and understanding of those in our sphere of influence, i agree here, b
ut you then go on to say the concepts of tolerance and diversity are destroying American unity.
This seems to me a contradiction, forthermore I may misunderstand you, I often do but I am not sure I like the undertone of the statement.
Multiculturalism and other social diversity brings with it acceptance and understanding of others, yes people in minority groups commit crime etc but so do those in the majority groups as well, but I don't really want to start a conversation about disaffection caused by historical attitudes towards groups in society.
In Australia we have bumper stickers that say "go away" (actually says this much more forcefully but I am not doing swears) we are full. Interestingly I have yet to see an aboriginal with one of these stickers. So maybe I have just proved your point, indoginous people got screwed when Europeans came to settle, I am fairly sure Australia isn't the only country this happened in.
The last paragraph while being true is a slightly different context to what we are talking about though.
Again I undersand and realise that this is your opinion and I respect that, without being face to face emotion and body language are lost, but please understand that I am not trying to be confrontational.
Best regards
Ed

I'll throw out a few questions. I'm interested in hearing what others think about this. First, do you agree or disagree that men were different in previous generations (be it good or bad, you explain)? In general, do you feel that society itself performed better in previous generations? If men were better or society was better, what do you see that made things they way they were? Of if you feel that men and society are better today, what do you see that has entered the picture to do that? And of course, this in the aggregate. I don't think that you can attribute any specific's to individuals. But I think you might be able to make some general statements that are true the majority of the time for a given period in history even if there are exceptions.

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

My opinion on this subject will probably ruffle some feathers but I haven't read it yet in the prior posts and I think it needs to be said.

I am 33, married and have 2 young kids. I am a Christian as well and try hard to lead my family based on biblical principles. I live my life as an example to the best of my ability to encourage other men my age to be the leaders of thier family. I am not suggesting becoming a tyrant here mind you, rather become patient, loving, caring, accepting and understanding of those in your sphere of influence.

IMO men in America lack accountability and revel in a care free life style that is pushed by our current society's value system and media. Many men have developed a victim's mentality when facing a consequence of thier actions instead of being honest and accountable for themselves.

American men seek the easy way out of difficult situations and that trend is only worsening as our society becomes more lazy and complacent. I have observed the mistakes of my father and many other men and have tried my best not to fall into those snares. I have also learned plenty of good things as well that I incorporate into my life daily. I once walked a treacherous path but realized it and turned from that life. I still pay for my old actions but I also reap the rewards of the current way I live and the juxtaposition of that duality has afforded me a small but valuable bit of wisdom.

America is built around personal freedom and with that comes the personal responsibility to positively affect those around you to maintain our freedoms. I believe that the concepts of tolerance and diversity are destroying our unity and it is up to men to lead by example, extend a hand and truly love one another as Americans.

I don't really want to start a great debate here but I wanted to spit out my view of American men and the issues that I see causing the most trouble. If you disagree I apologize but I am convinced that many of the breakdowns we see in our society could be fixed around the dining room table!

You're talking about standards. When I was in cooking school the chef posed a question to us. He asked us if it really mattered if we put bay leaf in our bouquet garni that would simmer in a ten gallon pot of stock. That stock, once made, would eventually be reduced to half of its volume and used as the basis for sauces and stews that ALSO might contain a bay leaf in their preparations among other things. After all the ingredients, time spent cooking, reduction, and re-use of the the original stock, did it really matter? The practical answer was no. It would be impossible for anyone to specifically determine that a bordelaise sauce was made with a stock containing a bay leaf or not. So he asked us why we bother to put one in there. The answer was that it simply came down to standards. There is the proper way to do things and the wrong way to do things. You might be able to cheat here or there but if you keep cheating, the cumulative effect is that you're suddenly cooking crap and its hard to determine exactly where things went wrong. A pot of stock with a bay leaf may not taste significantly different than one without it. But one without the bay leaf AND vegetable aromatics will. Once you begin cutting corners, you're through. So he warned that if the kitchen you're working in is out of bay leaves, you move your ass down the hall and FIND a bay leaf but don't let him catch you doing things the wrong way because, in his kitchen, it was about standards. I may not live a perfect life but I can assure you I make perfect stock.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

I can see where you are coming from, and agree that things can and should be worked out and discussed either with family or peers. I am neither american or religious, not that it is probabIy important, you say we should be accepting and understanding of those in our sphere of influence, i agree here, b
ut you then go on to say the concepts of tolerance and diversity are destroying American unity.
This seems to me a contradiction, forthermore I may misunderstand you, I often do but I am not sure I like the undertone of the statement.
Multiculturalism and other social diversity brings with it acceptance and understanding of others, yes people in minority groups commit crime etc but so do those in the majority groups as well, but I don't really want to start a conversation about disaffection caused by historical attitudes towards groups in society.

Ed, I figured this would need some clarification to be fully understood. I have thought about this for a long time myself and the conversation continues in my head as to how to better address the issue. This idea that diversity is a problem stems from the concept of "united we stand, divided we fall" or an older version "a house divided against itself cannot stand."

Unfortunately here in America we have pushed so hard for diversity that the existing culture in America has become obscured. Furthermore, by reclassifying everybody into smaller groups that can be identified by race, religion, age or any other category we have created a more segregated society. So, instead of focusing on common ground similarities and then accepting the differences we have been told how different we all are and the relationships between people have been strained prior to ever existing. I would like to see more education on commonalities instead of just the differences.

I am not 100% on this mind you but America is currently undergoing negative changes so I can't help but think its because we are setting up so many special classes of citizens rather than treating everybody with equality.

Tolerance is another hot button topic but it comes with a more negative connotation when compared to loving acceptance. I pose a simple query to highlight this difference, would you rather tolerate a person of a different background or lovingly accept that person? Tolerance is a forced acceptance where even if you disagree you just deal with it which in my experience builds animosity. Many of our preconceived notions about somebody else stems from our own beliefs. So instead of teaching tolerance, lets teach people how to examine why they believe something so they can better understand themselves and in turn change their actions to be more accepting.

Best,

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

Tolerance is another hot button topic but it comes with a more negative connotation when compared to loving acceptance. I pose a simple query to highlight this difference, would you rather tolerate a person of a different background or lovingly accept that person? Tolerance is a forced acceptance where even if you disagree you just deal with it which in my experience builds animosity. Many of our preconceived notions about somebody else stems from our own beliefs. So instead of teaching tolerance, lets teach people how to examine why they believe something so they can better understand themselves and in turn change their actions to be more accepting.

May be tolerance is the only thing you can get, or at least the first step where you start. What the vast majority of people understand by 'beliefs' is something that they are to hold onto at any cost, not something to examine and revise. Take any religion and see its official doctrine about non-believers - the attitude is at best of a 'second rate' people who could be converted and absorbed into the 'right way'. And the common practice is worse, not better than the official doctrine. 'Loving acceptance' is only good for the 'shared parts', anything that is not shared such as beliefs, traditions, lifestyle is not on the acceptable list.