Thread: Interesting Perspective on the State of American Manhood

Originally Posted by edhewitt

Was that the movie with Sidney poitier?

Yes Indeed It Was! In case you can't tell, I love that Movie! It showed so many life lessons!

Originally Posted by cudarunner

Yes Indeed It Was! In case you can't tell, I love that Movie! It showed so many life lessons!

Was it the one where he takes his record collection in and the kids smash them?

Originally Posted by gugi

I am not quite sure I understand the argument here. In what way are "men missing from the equation", how is this more prevalent than in the past?

And of course enjoy your shave!

She woke up! Shaving will have to wait until tonight.

I will elaborate some here. Men are physically, emotionally and/or spiritually missing from their homes. My father was spiritually missing and I never learned the importance of being a spiritual leader for my family until recently. Some men are emotionally missing in that they are not spending the time with their family or friends that is required to foster a meaningful and long lasting relationship. Some men can be in the home physically but are so distracted by sports, video games, technology, etc. that they are not active in their role as the family leader. Other men are physically gone from the home due to broken marriages, work or other circumstances.

Understand I am talking about men, there are lots of males but not so many men these days!

I have made a personal choice to do better for my family. If I have insulted anyone with this opinion it was not intentional but merely the way I choose to live and I believe thought provoking. BobH has an interesting signature that serves as a good reminder to my statements above.

Men, we are role models to those around us, especially family. What kind of message do our actions speak about us as we all know they are louder than words. That is why I promote a concept of action, talking is only the preliminary step in leading. Actions are what can be followed.

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

She woke up! Shaving will have to wait until tonight.

I will elaborate some here. Men are physically, emotionally and/or spiritually missing from their homes. My father was spiritually missing and I never learned the importance of being a spiritual leader for my family until recently. Some men are emotionally missing in that they are not spending the time with their family or friends that is required to foster a meaningful and long lasting relationship. Some men can be in the home physically but are so distracted by sports, video games, technology, etc. that they are not active in their role as the family leader. Other men are physically gone from the home due to broken marriages, work or other circumstances.

Understand I am talking about men, there are lots of males but not so many men these days!

I have made a personal choice to do better for my family. If I have insulted anyone with this opinion it was not intentional but merely the way I choose to live and I believe thought provoking. BobH has an interesting signature that serves as a good reminder to my statements above.

Men, we are role models to those around us, especially family. What kind of message do are actions speak about us as we all know they are louder than words. That is why I promote a concept of action, talking is only the preliminary step in leading. Actions are what can be followed.

And you seem to think that being that spiritual leader/family-leader of your family is a mans primary role?

While I agree with you that there are men missing from their homes, emotionally speaking, you seem to have this notion that men should assume the role of leaders of a household, based on their very gender?
That sounds very archaic to me.

I was brought up to view my wife as my equal, and so, we are a team in everything we do when it comes to this family.
She being no less a leader than I.
And why not?
We both have careers, of equal importance to this household, if not money-wise, then very much so in a personal development kind of way.
The "money-maker or "household-leader" position, it seems to me, is a joint venture to many of us in this day and age.
And to me, that seems like an improvement over the old ways..

As for us men being role-models, yes we are.
Much like any adult should strive to be really..

Originally Posted by Birnando

And you seem to think that being that spiritual leader/family-leader of your family is a mans primary role?

While I agree with you that there are men missing from their homes, emotionally speaking, you seem to have this notion that men should assume the role of leaders of a household, based on their very gender?
That sounds very archaic to me.

I was brought up to view my wife as my equal, and so, we are a team in everything we do when it comes to this family.
She being no less a leader than I.
And why not?
We both have careers, of equal importance to this household, if not money-wise, then very much so in a personal development kind of way.
The "money-maker or "household-leader" position, it seems to me, is a joint venture to many of us in this day and age.
And to me, that seems like an improvement over the old ways..

As for us men being role-models, yes we are.
Much like any adult should strive to be really..

My wife is very much my partner and I love and care for her dearly. Men and women are different though and not just in gender. We have our strengths and weaknesses and compliment each other nicely in respect to that. My view of marriage may not be your own but I have based our marriage on a biblical standard of which I will not get into any further as that is a personal choice made together by my wife and myself.

I am simply stating an observation into the lives of American men and the lack of unity and gratitude that men of my generation seemingly display toward our country.

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

She woke up! Shaving will have to wait until tonight.

Yeah, a shave's not that important

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

Men are physically, emotionally and/or spiritually missing from their homes. My father was spiritually missing and I never learned the importance of being a spiritual leader for my family until recently. Some men are emotionally missing in that they are not spending the time with their family or friends that is required to foster a meaningful and long lasting relationship. Some men can be in the home physically but are so distracted by sports, video games, technology, etc. that they are not active in their role as the family leader. Other men are physically gone from the home due to broken marriages, work or other circumstances.

The spiritual aspect of this is a bit a murky, but I suspect it has to do with religion, so it's not very transferrable.

I don't quite buy the patriarchal sentiment though. Before our lives got so much easier physical strength was pretty important for providing livelihood, and combined with the aggression from higher levels of testosterone virtually all known societies ended up patriarchal. But nowadays that's no longer the case, so our society has been changing respectively. Given everything else equal, women still get paid less than men for the same work, but that's still a big progress from few decades ago when they wouldn't even be given the job.

I do not view marriage as a man led enterprise, but more of a partnership between equals - ideally the two sides complement each other, but there is no dominance of one over the other.

This idea of men being leaders in their marriages makes no sense to me, a 'real man' is secure enough of who he is, and interested enough in advancing himself to find a partner who is his equal and able to challenge him. And the exact same goes for a 'real woman'. Of course none of us is perfect, but to me that's a reason to pair with somebody who would be able to help you grow, instead of somebody you are supposed to 'lead'. I'd reserve leadership to children, but even then it's not domination, but setting a good example.

One of my grandfathers was rather selfish, petty, and taking advantage of others. My grandmother did far more work than him and he always viewed himself as the guy in charge. He did as he pleased without regard of what that may do to others, including his wife, children and grandchildren. He voted against a candidate for a mayor who was far better choice than the one he voted for, only because she was a woman, his words were 'bah, a woman can not be a mayor'.

My other grandfather was pretty much the opposite. He was selfless, generous and always considerate. That grandmother of mine had health problems and couldn't work the usual farm/field work, so she stayed at home, and worked as a cook/helper in a local kindergarden - it was extremely low paid job and very low status too. But they were equal in their marriage in any aspect I can think of. That's also the best marriage I've ever seen.

I spent probably a third of my childhood with my grandparents and I learned how to be from the first and how not to be from the second. I didn't have to be told what is right and what is wrong either - I just enjoyed being around one of my grandfathers and not so much being around the other.


Anyways, I suspect that you are more equal with your wife than it may be inferred from your post. If you're staying at home to take care of your daughter, she is likely the one who provides the support for the family, and that's a leadership role.

I think many American men think that marriage is a joint venture. Men are engaged in their sons lives. I learned many valuable lessons from my Dad despite being from a 'single family household'. That word, singe family, gets abused a lot. If mom is the primary custody holder that does mean the dad is completely absent. I think today it is more about co-parenting. I can think of a few example were a young man might have two dads. His bio dad is there and his step dad is just as caring. A step dad might not have the same love of the bio dad but can still provide guidance. Hell, I consider myself a good uncle. I know not all men have good role models growing up. I mentored a few of them. I hope I was able to teach them a few of my positive traits.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

Not all of societies problems are caused by religion, but religious extremism seems to cause quite a few. This is not pointed at any particular religion.

I would add extreme people using religion to justify their actions.

You know, focusing on me personally takes away from the spirit of the thread. I have simply posted some observations to get people thinking and hopefully asking some questions that will lead to some self examination. My beliefs are also not the answer to the problem but I will stand by the simple fact that the choices and actions made by men significantly impact those around them.

My version of leading is not "I'm the boss" but rather cautious, planned, tender, loving and responsive. I hope you can respect that as I think divulging more information will only focus more on my beliefs rather than the more generic conversation about men in America we were having.

Nah, I think it is more on target. The original article was about a lot of issues. Another reason why I did not like it. The author could never sit still for a second and discuss one thing at length to back up his thesis. Anyway, one of his points was the absence of of a father or father figure in the lives of boys. Somehow that that led to the tragic instance between Martin and Zimmerman. They did not have men in their lives so they overcompensated in other ways with vulgar language, g#$, machismo attitudes, and sexism. I am not saying those are not issues. I just do not think it can be blamed on the divorce rates.