Thread: Interesting Perspective on the State of American Manhood

Originally Posted by WhiskerHarvest

I just read that the DOJ is still looking into some sort of civil rights violation ever after the FBI has investigated and reported that race was not a factor! Holder is probably busy concocting some goofy law they can use to get their "justice." The actions of our current administration are shameful, divisive, and destructive to "we the people." Don't worry though, this is the "change" we were promised, you should consider spending the weekend near Traverse City!

Let the DOJ look here,

Jogger says he was attacked in retaliation for Zimmerman verdict - DC Breaking Local News Weather Sports FOX 5 WTTG

or here,

Man beaten by

or here,

4 teens charged in death of Mableton man - Atlanta News, Weather, Traffic, and Sports | FOX 5

or here,

Journalist: Martin protesters 'slugged me,' 'kicked me' in head | The Daily Caller

In the end though he was was acquitted he really lost, big time.

He will have to go into hiding now. He won't be able to go out into public for years and of course all the death threats. He'll constantly be looking over his shoulder. He probably won't be able to find employment. He'll need to change his identity. Yea, his life will be hell.

Then the civil suit will come and he'll be forced to testify and that will be another media circus and he'll probably have a multi million dollar settlement dogging him all his life.

I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Originally Posted by Grizzley1

Multiculturalism and tolerance...both were mentioned over and over earlier in this post,now I'm pretty sure I'll get some heat over my opinion of these terms,but here goes . Yes we live in a multicultural society,and tolerance is a good thing,BUT when these thing are rammed down our throats,in my opinion,that is what causes conflict.I'll explain, If a family of a different culture other than yours moves into your world, (work, neighborhood,etc.) and they make no effort to become part of America,You absolutely have the right not to like them,however you are obligated to tolerate them if they aren't doing anything to harm or bother YOU.I submit that you are allowed to like or dislike anything you like,but you do not have the right to do them harm,but there are people that will tell you that you HAVE to like them or else you are a bigot,racist,or any number of ugly terms,In my opinion that is what starts the trouble.You cannot force everyone to like everyone,there allowed to thier own opinion whether you agree or not,and if they aren't told that they MUST like one group or another,they will in their own time, maybe find tolerance and also maybe find out that they actually like the group or person if left to their own devices. IMHO.

Originally Posted by crouton976

I couldn't agree more with all of this. If I am an individual, I am allowed to decide whom I like and dislike, regardless of feelings. I can be a complete jerk or Mr. Nice Guy, but it should be at my discretion so long as I'm not harming anyone. That's where the personal responsibility I called out earlier in the thread comes in.

Personally, I usually don't have a problem with most folks until they give me a reason. And, even if they give me that reason, I'm usually cordial unless someone causes harm to me or my loved ones. Unless you show me why I shouldn't associate with you, as far as I'm concerned I'm no better or worse than you. We each put our pants on one leg at a time.

First off let me be clear and state I respect your opinion. It is a very common opinion and not one you to apologize about. But if I may, allow me to try and give you another opinion.

The fact that someone moves here (the US) from another country, generally means that that person respects what America is all about. In 99% of cases no one is forced to move here. However, that doesn't mean that those immigrants can morph into American culture overnight. Believe it or not, American culture is extremely complex and not easy to morph into without having lived here for your whole life.

Now I understand that most should learn English. But if they don't! Well what's more American than being lazy lol!! Heck I have lived all over the place and seen many an American never learn the language of the country they are in even after living there for years.

It's not the first generation immigrants you should be upset at. It's the second generation. The ones born here. And nine times out of ten you can't complain because they have adopted American culture whole heatedly.

Where we get into problems as evidenced by American history is when we vilify a class of immigrants and don't allow them to morph, due to bigotry and intolerance from day one, of generation one. All one has to do is see how long it took the Irish, the Polish etc., to see the truth in that statement...

And that's why... because history has proven that intolerance creates generations of hardship, that many try to force the public to embrace new immigrants. At least it's a theory you can ponder.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Let the DOJ look here,

Jogger says he was attacked in retaliation for Zimmerman verdict - DC Breaking Local News Weather Sports FOX 5 WTTG

or here,

Man beaten by

or here,

4 teens charged in death of Mableton man - Atlanta News, Weather, Traffic, and Sports | FOX 5

or here,

Journalist: Martin protesters 'slugged me,' 'kicked me' in head | The Daily Caller

I've got to ask why should DOJ look at these?

Originally Posted by gugi

I've got to ask why should DOJ look at these?

If the DOJ is going to look into this further for civil rights violations or spend tax dollars to coordinate protests, let them do so with these cases on behalf of the victims here. But I suspect they wont.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

If the DOJ is going to look into this further for civil rights violations or spend tax dollars to coordinate protests, let them do so with these cases on behalf of the victims here. But I suspect they wont.

I see, you have no problem with DOJ looking for civil rights violations, or spending tax dollars, just want them to be doing it on cases you like, although you don't seem to think there are actually civil rights violations in there.

Kind of ironic to see in the same thread complaints about americans these days being immature and not taking any personal responsibility, only to be followed with whining about the media being the problem, or the government being the problem, and just about anybody else being the problem.

Originally Posted by gugi

I see, you have no problem with DOJ looking for civil rights violations, or spending tax dollars, just want them to be doing it on cases you like, although you don't seem to think there are actually civil rights violations in there.

Kind of ironic to see in the same thread complaints about americans these days being immature and not taking any personal responsibility, only to be followed with whining about the media being the problem, or the government being the problem, and just about anybody else being the problem.

No, I think you're missing the point. Its the hypocrisy and the bringing of politics into both the news reporting and our DOJ. Quite the contrary, I don't believe the DOJ should EVER get involved with organizing protests on behalf of any issue......EVER. This is the first time I've ever heard of this type of action and it should disturb everyone. And yes, there are civil rights violations in the cases I pointed out. But I don't see them being looked into in that fashion. These seem to be classified as simple crimes. But then again the roles in these cases are reversed so I'm not surprised. My personal belief is that all crimes should be handled as simple crimes not "hate crimes" or civil rights violations. The laws that exist are sufficient to protect us all. But since we are going to have crimes classified as hate crimes or civil rights violations, let be done fairly.

And what is this nonsense you're spewing about the ironic turn of events? Isn't the media and government supposed to keep honest those of us that DON'T take personal responsibility for their actions? Are you ok with the government taking sides in court cases that were no yet resolved? Are you ok with gov't using tax dollars to organize protests? I've read the Constitution over a few time and have never seen any suggestion that this might be the role of our gov't. Personal responsibility is just that, personal. When the guy next to me doesn't conform to that, we turn to gov't. And then we find the gov't is fueling the unrest. But somehow because we believe in personal responsibilti we're supposed to be ok with that? I don't get it.

My personal choice has been to practice personal responsibility, not point fingers around at who does what, so I am not interested in getting involved in stupid arguments. I do not complain about the media because this is USA and the media is in the business of making profit. That has always been the case, but fox news demonstrated how if you're really good you could convert what used to be news into highly targeted entertainment and make far more money than anybody in that business ever imagined.
Nowadays other networks attempt to replicate the same thing, but they are not particularly adept at it and look just sad.

If the americans valued news, more than entertainment they would be wiling to pay accordingly, there would be god money to be made and that's what the so called 'news' would be. Just take a look at your 'news sources' and you'll know where the fundamental problem lays.

I have learned several languages and keep up to date with diverse news sources, I also pay several hundred dollars a year in personal subscriptions to magazines like the economist (even though I have free access at work as well) where the points may be ideological, but they are argumented with decent logic an facts.
If others choose to only look for what they already agree with, that's really not my problem - at the end of the day they get the short end of the stick by being poorly informed and lacking critical thinking skills.


The same thing goes with the government - the US elections are rather free, so the government reflects exactly the values of those who vote for it. When the voters become less dogmatic and ideological their elected representatives would be as well. That's how personal responsibility works, or doesn't work - as long as you keep holding tight onto your dogma and think the right way is that everybody else must see the light and convert to your ideology, you will continue to have the current political reality.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

No, I think you're missing the point. Its the hypocrisy and the bringing of politics into both the news reporting and our DOJ. Quite the contrary, I don't believe the DOJ should EVER get involved with organizing protests on behalf of any issue......EVER. This is the first time I've ever heard of this type of action and it should disturb everyone. And yes, there are civil rights violations in the cases I pointed out. But I don't see them being looked into in that fashion. These seem to be classified as simple crimes. But then again the roles in these cases are reversed so I'm not surprised. My personal belief is that all crimes should be handled as simple crimes not "hate crimes" or civil rights violations. The laws that exist are sufficient to protect us all. But since we are going to have crimes classified as hate crimes or civil rights violations, let be done fairly.

And what is this nonsense you're spewing about the ironic turn of events? Isn't the media and government supposed to keep honest those of us that DON'T take personal responsibility for their actions? Are you ok with the government taking sides in court cases that were no yet resolved? Are you ok with gov't using tax dollars to organize protests? I've read the Constitution over a few time and have never seen any suggestion that this might be the role of our gov't. Personal responsibility is just that, personal. When the guy next to me doesn't conform to that, we turn to gov't. And then we find the gov't is fueling the unrest. But somehow because we believe in personal responsibilti we're supposed to be ok with that? I don't get it.

Another issue here is the blatant impartiality on the part of the DOJ. That department is supposed to represent blind justice based on facts not feelings. The DOJ and the media are goading these protesters on to what end? Our country has become very divided and the line in the sand is blue on one side and red on the other. These are scary times and to see this push for race riots is very concerning.

I watched some of the Pierce Morgan interview with Rachel Jeantel and was flabbergasted about what she said. It turns out that she and Trayvon believed George to be a homosexual rapist. Listen to the interview and put yourself back into the shoes of a 6'2" 17 year old who has a chip on his shoulder. While it was a tragedy, the facts are the facts, why this animosity is being perpetuated is beyond me but it is sinister and disgusting.

Earcutter, I agree with you on everything you said. However, I think the main point of Grizzley's post, as well as my own, is that I shouldn't be made to feel like a bigot or racist simply because I don't like someone who has given me cause not to like them. It's not that they are from another country or culture than I am that makes me dislike a person (speaking for myself here... Grizzley can weigh in on his own). I don't take race into account when reaching this conclusion about someone. I let their actions decide that for me, hence, my statement about them being no better or worse than me. I could reach the same negative conclusion about a young American white male, an immigrated African woman, a middle aged American born Oriental man or an immigrated Hispanic child. The point, at least for me, is that a person's actions dictate my reaction to them. If you present yourself poorly, I will have an apprehension to associating myself with you. Also, if I'm shown that you aren't as bad as I thought initially, I'll be more receptive to you. Some of the best people I have ever known and respected have been from other countries and cultures, as well as genders (let's not forget this one).

In my opinion, hate breeds hate. Hating someone for something they have no or little control over is appalling. Hating them because they make different choices and hold different beliefs than you do isn't much better, if at all. Choosing not to associate one's self with someone because they aren't a very good influence on your life is a different matter altogether.

Again, that's what I was referring to in my last post. Black, White, Red, Yellow, Green, Plaid, Polka Dot... I don't care what color your skin is. Christ, Buddha, Satan, The Goddess, Marvin the Martian or Scooby Doo... I don't care who your God (or lack of) is. I don't care if you're a man or woman. I don't care if you're smart as a whip or as dumb as a rock. Rich or poor.

You are a human being and deserve to be treated as such. I will only judge a person by what they do, not who they are.