Thread: President of the US of A

Originally Posted by honedright

The "ingenious system of checks and balances" is not reflective of a bureaucracy in the case of the US, but refers, I believe, to the system carefully designed to balance the powers of the three branches of government. Very different.

Or not all that different when you take into account that a 'system carefully designed to balance the powers' is only a dead concept until it is implemented through a robust bureaucracy.

Originally Posted by honedright

I think Lincoln, and even Douglas, both just rolled over in their tombs.

Nah, the party has experienced much more dramatic changes in the past. E.g. after absorbing the southern faction from the Democratic party.
This time around there is no big new constituency switching parties, just a change in who is in charge.

Originally Posted by gugi

Or not all that different when you take into account that a 'system carefully designed to balance the powers' is only a dead concept until it is implemented through a robust bureaucracy.

I believe that originally, according to the founders themselves (I believe documented in The Federalist Papers), the implementation of the system of checks and balances was left in the hands of the people, not a bureaucracy. I believe it was Hamilton who wrote that checks on power solely written on parchment could do nothing to stop powerful men in office. It remained up to the people, and their votes, to provide the ultimate check on abusers of power.

Originally Posted by gugi

Nah, the party has experienced much more dramatic changes in the past. E.g. after absorbing the southern faction from the Democratic party.
This time around there is no big new constituency switching parties, just a change in who is in charge.

Maybe, but if I were on a cruise ship coursing through the Atlantic and an announcement came over the PA informing that there had been a slight change in personnel, the Captain of the Titanic has been resurrected, and is taking over the helm. I'd be a little concerned.

Originally Posted by honedright

I believe that originally, according to the founders themselves (I believe documented in The Federalist Papers), the implementation of the system of checks and balances was left in the hands of the people, not a bureaucracy. I believe it was Hamilton who wrote that checks on power solely written on parchment could do nothing to stop powerful men in office. It remained up to the people, and their votes, to provide the ultimate check on abusers of power.

Yeah, and this is exactly how it works. A lot of voters who identify with the republican party have decided that they want to back Donald Trump for president. A lot of voters who identify with the democratic party have decided that they want to back Hillary Clinton for president.
In six months we'll have an election and many people will vote for one, the other, or somebody else, and the person who gets the majority of the electoral votes will become president.

Similarly people have been electing their representatives and senators and have tended to keep reelecting them about 90% of the time. Ultimately this means that the people have been fairly happy how their representatives are doing their job. The government has been implemented and continues to operate exactly as proscribed by the founding fathers.
If the people are unhappy, they get to pick somebody else and some of them just expressed their unhappiness with the way the republican party has been operating by picking Donald Trump over the alternatives.

Originally Posted by gugi

Yeah, and this is exactly how it works. A lot of voters who identify with the republican party have decided that they want to back Donald Trump for president. A lot of voters who identify with the democratic party have decided that they want to back Hillary Clinton for president.
In six months we'll have an election and many people will vote for one, the other, or somebody else, and the person who gets the majority of the electoral votes will become president.

Similarly people have been electing their representatives and senators and have tended to keep reelecting them about 90% of the time. Ultimately this means that the people have been fairly happy how their representatives are doing their job. The government has been implemented and continues to operate exactly as proscribed by the founding fathers.
If the people are unhappy, they get to pick somebody else and some of them just expressed their unhappiness with the way the republican party has been operating by picking Donald Trump over the alternatives.

"The government has been implemented and continues to operate exactly as proscribed by the founding fathers." Well, not "exactly." Once again, those pesky un-elected central administrative bureaucrats issuing administrative policy as law. Not exactly what the founders wanted.

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

and then God help us.

He is the only one that can since the begin of time!!! "Surely I come quickly."

Originally Posted by honedright

"The government has been implemented and continues to operate exactly as proscribed by the founding fathers." Well, not "exactly." Once again, those pesky un-elected central administrative bureaucrats issuing administrative policy as law. Not exactly what the founders wanted.

But those policies don't happen on their own - they are authorized to be issued by a law. If they are unlawful and affect you you can take them to court and win. You certainly have this power and responsibility, as you already said.

A lot of words!

But, in the end we all get screwed by bureaucracy or the checks and balances!

"WE THE PEOPLE" now means we tell you people what we think you need.
Not, tell us what we should do for you!
The political process has eroded from a Republic to a socialist bog.

There is No Rule of Law in the USA. and I thought political discussion was Heavily frowned upon if not Banned here? What gives?