Thread: Societal Norms Discussion

Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli

Interesting article on voting: http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110010316

Cheers Jon, interesting article. Not sure I agree with Mr Caplan's somewhat radical position, but it's certainly thought-provoking. (BTW, is it Jon or Jone? I've been trying to work it out for some time but also not paying attention if it's cropped up before. )

Originally Posted by Bruno

Of course you are free not to vote. Our voting system (either paper or software) specificaly has an option that allows you to NOT vote.
The only thing that is mandatory is turning up.

Hmmmm, OK, also interesting. The thing is, I think the proportion not turning up is an important weather vane. Making it mandatory to turn up but OK to vote 'null' is probably turning a lot of unmotivated, disillusioned non-voters into making a, let's say, uninformed vote. You know, "Oh, I've turned up I might as well put SOMEONE down." What's the concensus in Belgium about how this policy translates into results?

Originally Posted by majurey

Cheers Jon, interesting article. Not sure I agree with Mr Caplan's somewhat radical position, but it's certainly thought-provoking. (BTW, is it Jon or Jone? I've been trying to work it out for some time but also not paying attention if it's cropped up before. )

I thought the article was interesting since we were discussing voting. I haven't been able to find the Boortz quote I was looking for yet. Maybe tonight I'll have time.

Jon, JonE, JD, whatever...

It's amazing what I've been called over the years, LOL.

I think there should be
a 3 question quiz at the voting booth.

if you can't answer 2 for 3 then no vote.
random questions.

examples
Who was the last PM of the UK? If they can't figure our PM and
UK then it's fail.
What country is Darfur located in?
Under what feature of the Constitution does GWB seek to prevent the congress from questioning his counsel?
Name the last 3 presidents in order.
Who is president of Mexico?
Who is Hugo Chavez?
How is China screwing the US by not revaluing its currency?
How are companies screwing Americans by sending jobs over seas? (trick question)
Who Was Rockefeller?
Who or what was Ma Bell?

so on and so on

What country is Darfur located in?
Darfive?

Who is president of Mexico?
Manual Labor?

Who is Hugo Chavez?
South American Fashion Designer?

How is China screwing the US by not revaluing its currency?
Walmart?

How are companies screwing Americans by sending jobs over seas? (trick question)
So we can have immigrants do them without them having to leave home?

Who Was Rockefeller?
He invented the porch swing.

Who or what was Ma Bell?
The character that Bea Benaderet played on "The Beverly Hillbillies"

How'd I do?

(announcer)

"Oh, I'm sorry but thanks for playing anyway."
' Do we have something to give him for his time back there Mark?"

(Mark)
"WE CERTAINLY DO !!"

(announcer)
"Well Mr JonE, even though you didn't win you still made a valiant effort and you deserve something for your time. So we have for you, courtesy of our sponsors, A WHOLE YEARS SUPPLY OF........... (pretty girls pulls a slip of paper from an envelope and hands it to announcer)



















DAYS !!!!!!!! (music plays and crowd cheers )

actually, if it were a real voter I might give them walmart and immigrants just for having had enough understanding of the issue to be a regular asshole instead of an ignorant asshole

I'm proud to be a regular *sshole, many folks think I'm an XL, LOL

Originally Posted by majurey

Hmmmm, OK, also interesting. The thing is, I think the proportion not turning up is an important weather vane. Making it mandatory to turn up but OK to vote 'null' is probably turning a lot of unmotivated, disillusioned non-voters into making a, let's say, uninformed vote. You know, "Oh, I've turned up I might as well put SOMEONE down." What's the concensus in Belgium about how this policy translates into results?

A lot of people who otherwise would not have turned up vote for the right wing extremist just to spite the government.
Studies have shown that they would lose a significant part of their chairs if the mandatory attendance was abolished.

I am in 2 minds about this. On one hand I would be joyed to see them get hit where it hurts most, but on the other hand, this law was created for a reason. These days the law is not necessary anymore to protect factory workers, but I think that everybody has a duty to vote. My ancestors fought hard to earn the right to vote, and a lot of people these days couldn't be arsed to get out of their chair on voting day otherwise.

Originally Posted by Bruno

...I think that everybody has a duty to vote. My ancestors fought hard to earn the right to vote, and a lot of people these days couldn't be arsed to get out of their chair on voting day otherwise.

I agree that everyone has a duty to vote. Along with that duty comes the responsibility of being at least a little knowledgeable of why you're voting for who (or whatever issue) you are voting for. If you are totally clueless I'd prefer you stay at home.

Originally Posted by majurey

...
Hmmmm, OK, also interesting. The thing is, I think the proportion not turning up is an important weather vane. Making it mandatory to turn up but OK to vote 'null' is probably turning a lot of unmotivated, disillusioned non-voters into making a, let's say, uninformed vote. You know, "Oh, I've turned up I might as well put SOMEONE down." What's the concensus in Belgium about how this policy translates into results?

Bruno made an important clarification - it's not mandatory to vote in Australia either - you just have to turn up.

Can't speak for Belgium, but obvious donkey votes are, I think, disregarded in the tally in Australia. We don't have a formal mechanism for non-voting once you get in the booth - you either don't mark the ballots (properly) or you randomly (or non-randomly) allocate preferences. I think there's some stats somewhere on the estimated proportion of this behaviour - I'll try to dig it up if I can. But from (a very vague) memory, I think it's relatively small.

James.

if you don't show up to vote (or not vote as the case may be), do you get arrested? charged with a crime? pay a fine?