Thread: Four days in

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

I can only speak for me, but yes, I would still feel the same way.
Will the number of coronavirus deaths outweigh the number of suicides from economic strain and amount of families this will throw into poverty? It's to early to tell.. but a suicide because of economic strain is no less valuable then a death from the virus.

True-And suicides have gone up dramatically across several demographics in recent years, partially as a result of feelings of economic powerlessness; of course the opioid crisis and other factors play into the statistics too. (And yes, each one of those "statistics" was a living, breathing human being who left behind a lot of hurting people). And working-class people without marketable skills in the gig economy have been struggling since the post '08 recovery. Half this country lives paycheck to paycheck-I can't imagine the desperation of millions of people right now who were circling the drain even before the virus shut everything down. This is starting to remind me of Steinbeck's novel The Grapes of Wrath, which I taught this year. Desperate people will do desperate things to feed their families-I would, and probably so would you. I guess after they've exhausted all options, and maybe their medical, college or farm debt seems hopeless to ever pay off, or their addiction or mental issues become too much to bear, they turn to that terrible final solution.

I don't say this much around friends or family because too much truth scares people (and makes them think you're just another old crank), but I sense that we are only in the beginning of chaos for years to come that will make this seem tame by comparison. I really hope I'm wrong. Take care, friends.

Originally Posted by welshwizard

Unless the virus kills you.

It's possible I or my wife or my children could catch it and die.
It's also possible I could be killed in a head on crash taking food to my elderly parents. No day is guaranteed

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

It's possible I or my wife or my children could catch it and die.
It's also possible I could be killed in a head on crash taking food to my elderly parents. No day is guaranteed

Indeed. The difference is, if your in a car crash only a few people may die. If you have the virus, you may not even know you have it and pass it on to 10 people, each of them pass it on to 10 people and so on and so on. How many of them can potentially die?

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Indeed. The difference is, if your in a car crash only a few people may die. If you have the virus, you may not even know you have it and pass it on to 10 people, each of them pass it on to 10 people and so on and so on. How many of them can potentially die?

Kind of removed from the original context of the post... but hypothetically, yes, you could be correct. That being said, I may not have the virus and I may not pass it to anyone.

I totally understand some are very concerned with the virus and I'm not trying mitigate their feeling about it. That being said, just because I don't see it the same as others doesn't make me someone that some how doesn't value the life of others.

All I think I know is that over the 20-30 years the headlong rush to globalization and automation has torn the heart out of the western middle classes. Add to that corporate policies of out sourcing, just in time inventory system and the need for quarterly profit increase instead of yearly to name a few tricks haven't helped any either. It's been a race to the bottom with more wealth today concentrated in the hands of the very few than ever before. Capitalism run amok.

The current pandemic has brought all that to an abrupt head. I have no clue how it will eventually be dealt with. First you have to answer the multi trillion dollar question of what you value more, lives or money? Even if you get that answered the way ahead will be rough and return to the way things were pre pandemic might only be seen in the review mirror.

I don't know about you but it scares the scrap out of me.

Bob

You know this is how stupid corporations think people are. I worked at a place that directly employed a large number of the local population. They would put articles in the news paper saying that they had lost money this year. If you read the article it turns out that they made a bit less profit than the year before but were still well into the black.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

You know this is how stupid corporations think people are. I worked at a place that directly employed a large number of the local population. They would put articles in the news paper saying that they had lost money this year. If you read the article it turns out that they made a bit less profit than the year before but were still well into the black.

Bob

Yep, the last few companies I've worked for will price a job, and factor, say, a 20% profit. If it only makes 15% profit it's still considered a loss.

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Yep, the last few companies I've worked for will price a job, and factor, say, a 20% profit. If it only makes 15% profit it's still considered a loss.

I worked at a factory that they were honest in telling us that. 10% profit when in the market at relatively safe markets they could make 12%.

That was after the family that thought 10% was plenty sold it to an investment group.

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

True-And suicides have gone up dramatically across several demographics in recent years, partially as a result of feelings of economic powerlessness; of course the opioid crisis and other factors play into the statistics too. (And yes, each one of those "statistics" was a living, breathing human being who left behind a lot of hurting people). And working-class people without marketable skills in the gig economy have been struggling since the post '08 recovery. Half this country lives paycheck to paycheck-I can't imagine the desperation of millions of people right now who were circling the drain even before the virus shut everything down. This is starting to remind me of Steinbeck's novel The Grapes of Wrath, which I taught this year. Desperate people will do desperate things to feed their families-I would, and probably so would you. I guess after they've exhausted all options, and maybe their medical, college or farm debt seems hopeless to ever pay off, or their addiction or mental issues become too much to bear, they turn to that terrible final solution.

I don't say this much around friends or family because too much truth scares people (and makes them think you're just another old crank), but I sense that we are only in the beginning of chaos for years to come that will make this seem tame by comparison. I really hope I'm wrong. Take care, friends.

Yes but there is a big difference. When someone decides to kill themselves it is a decision that they alone make. Of course some decide to take as many with them as they can but in many cases when a post mortem its done there is mental illness involved and where there isn't there is help out there they never sought or they could have made life style changes to adapt which they chose not to do.

This virus thing is more like being in a war. You go out on patrol and you don't return. It's out of your hands. You go to the store to buy groceries and two weeks later you be dead. It's as simple as that. There is nothing you can do about it.

Throughout history there have always been economic panics and depressions and the world has gotten through it and survived as have just about everyone affected. Very few kill themselves. The stories and jokes about the 1929 depression and having to dodge bodies falling into the street in NYC are just that stories. The millions killed by disease through history are not stories or exaggerations and once you're dead there's no coming back or second chances (except for you know who).

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

(except for you know who).

Voldemort?