Thread: Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

May I ask your reasons behind determining that he loves you/us? I really would like more insight on this.

That would be an interesting thing to ask of any relationship...

If He loves us AND is an interventionist, then he sure has some explaining to do.
Because a whole lot of people have died in all sorts of 'interesting' ways without ever having noticed.

Originally Posted by Bruno

If He loves us AND is an interventionist, then he sure has some explaining to do.
Because a whole lot of people have died in all sorts of 'interesting' ways without ever having noticed.

That is The Human Condition. We are born, we live our lives, and at the end of them:

We are all alone.
There is no one who can help us.
We die.

Jesus on the cross was abandoned by his friends, condemned by those he had ministered to, and left to a torturous execution by Roman soldiers who threw dice for his clothing. The Human Condition, writ large. He even felt abandoned by God, as evidenced by his words, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" He went through all of that so he could be my brother as well as my Father.

I realize this is a statement of faith, and as such not particularly useful to our discussion. For an honest discussion by someone who experienced the worst of suffering and come to very different conclusions about God, I would recommend Night by Elie Wiesel. To phrase the question in my own words, "If there is a God, why does he allow these things to take place?" I suppose that would be matter for a different thread.
I'm enjoying all the responses. You guys are sharp!

Originally Posted by norman931

That is The Human Condition. We are born, we live our lives, and at the end of them:

We are all alone.
There is no one who can help us.
We die.

Jesus on the cross was abandoned by his friends, condemned by those he had ministered to, and left to a torturous execution by Roman soldiers who threw dice for his clothing. The Human Condition, writ large. He even felt abandoned by God, as evidenced by his words, "My God, why have you forsaken me?" He went through all of that so he could be my brother as well as my Father.

I realize this is a statement of faith, and as such not particularly useful to our discussion. For an honest discussion by someone who experienced the worst of suffering and come to very different conclusions about God, I would recommend Night by Elie Wiesel. To phrase the question in my own words, "If there is a God, why does he allow these things to take place?" I suppose that would be matter for a different thread.
I'm enjoying all the responses. You guys are sharp!

It is also the beginning of psalm22, which prophetically fortells His death.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

It is also the beginning of psalm22, which prophetically fortells His death.

Which was conveniently written a LONG time ago, and of which the source can never be traced. And even if it could, the first writings were from a long time after his death. Not to mention the significant editing that went into the bible to make it fit to convictions of those doing the editing.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Which was conveniently written a LONG time ago, and of which the source can never be traced. And even if it could, the first writings were from a long time after his death. Not to mention the significant editing that went into the bible to make it fit to convictions of those doing the editing.

No one is asking you to believe anything Bruno.

As for editing....I think most of the editing that is done is translation errors. And although a few major misstakes can come from those....It wouldn't change the entire red line in the bible....that Christ was prophesied to come, that He came, died and was resurrected.

Originally Posted by norman931

He went through all of that so he could be my brother as well as my Father.

This brings up a question of morality. Is it moral to assume the suffering of another person can absolve you of sin? If I let you serve a term in prison for me, are we both better men for it? Worse? Which one of us has faulty morals? Both? The system that lets it occur?

Just more things to think about.

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

This brings up a question of morality. Is it moral to assume the suffering of another person can absolve you of sin?

No

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

If I let you serve a term in prison for me, are we both better men for it?

Not usually

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Worse?

Usually

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Which one of us has faulty morals?

If I can only pick one, I pick you

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Both?

Yes

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

The system that lets it occur?

What system? God? His morals are beyond reproach

Oo, oo, my turn!

What is sin? Can I even be absolved of it, and if so, how?

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

This brings up a question of morality. Is it moral to assume the suffering of another person can absolve you of sin? If I let you serve a term in prison for me, are we both better men for it? Worse? Which one of us has faulty morals? Both? The system that lets it occur?

Just more things to think about.

The key point here is that Jesus was not just another person, but the Son of God. God incarnate in the flesh.

If I suffer for you, or vice versa, it probably doesn't do either of us much good (although under certain circumstances, perhaps?).

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

What is sin? Can I even be absolved of it, and if so, how?

Sin means "to miss the mark". The "mark" being a life in accordance with God's will.