Thread: The Ukraine Situation

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Ukraine was never part of the "Nuclear Club". They don't and never had capability to produce weapons like that.

Prior to 1991, Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and had Soviet nuclear weapons in its territory.

On December 1, 1991, Ukraine, the second most powerful republic in the Soviet Union (USSR), voted overwhelmingly for independence, which ended any realistic chance of the Soviet Union staying together even on a limited scale.[1] More than 90% of the electorate expressed their support for Ukraine's declaration of independence, and they elected the chairman of the parliament, Leonid Kravchuk as the first president of the country. At the meetings in Brest, Belarus on December 8, and in Alma Ata on December 21, the leaders of Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine formally dissolved the Soviet Union and formed the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS).

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine held about one-third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third-largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production.[2] 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totalling approximately 1,700 warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.[3] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.[4] In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT).

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Prior to 1991, Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and had Soviet nuclear weapons in its territory.

On December 1, 1991, Ukraine, the second most powerful republic in the Soviet Union (USSR), voted overwhelmingly for independence, which ended any realistic chance of the Soviet Union staying together even on a limited scale.[1] More than 90% of the electorate expressed their support for Ukraine's declaration of independence, and they elected the chairman of the parliament, Leonid Kravchuk as the first president of the country. At the meetings in Brest, Belarus on December 8, and in Alma Ata on December 21, the leaders of Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine formally dissolved the Soviet Union and formed the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS).

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine held about one-third of the Soviet nuclear arsenal, the third-largest in the world at the time, as well as significant means of its design and production.[2] 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totalling approximately 1,700 warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.[3] Formally, these weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.[4] In 1994 Ukraine agreed to destroy the weapons and to join the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT).

How could/would I argue that. That contained in the links I had previously posted. Along with NATO not giving any assures regarding the continued independence of Ukraine but the US, UK, Russia and to a lesser extent China did.

Bob

Former NATO and Ukraine Ambassador/Special Rep Kurt Volker, just agreed with my idea of sending A-10's for the Ukrainians to fly, maybe not so crazy

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Former NATO and Ukraine Ambassador/Special Rep Kurt Volker, just agreed with my idea of sending A-10's for the Ukrainians to fly, maybe not so crazy

No one said it was crazy to give the Ukrainians A=10s to fly. It would be entirely another matter if US pilots flew the A-10s in Ukraine against the Russians. If Ukraine does go after that long stalled Russian column north of Kyiv the Ukraine had better be able to muster air superiority over that column while the A-10s go into attack.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

No one said it was crazy to give the Ukrainians A=10s to fly. It would be entirely another matter if US pilots flew the A-10s in Ukraine against the Russians.
Bob

Nobody ever said anything about American pilots flying them

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Nobody ever said anything about American pilots flying them

You are right, you never said anything about American pilots flying them. I said if that was the case it would be a crazy idea. The again there many other countries sending military aid into Ukraine also. Give them all the help you can short of starting a war with Russia itself at this point.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

How could/would I argue that. That contained in the links I had previously posted. Along with NATO not giving any assures regarding the continued independence of Ukraine but the US, UK, Russia and to a lesser extent China did.

Bob

It's really not as simple as that. In reality Ukraine like the other countries having nukes after the breakup of the USSR were put under tremendous pressure and were threatened with sanctions if they didn't disarm. You can argue this and the Treaty of Budapest all you want. Theoretically we promised to protect them but some say only under certain conditions. Russia signed that too so the whole treaty is worthless now.

Well the question of Nukes became a different issue today as Russia just attacked the largest Nuclear Plant in Europe

Chernobyl version 2 anyone ???


I feel good, all the "Experts" say it is doubtful that we will have a leak

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Well the question of Nukes became a different issue today as Russia just attacked the largest Nuclear Plant in Europe

Chernobyl version 2 anyone ???


I feel good, all the "Experts" say it is doubtful that we will have a leak

That is a separate issue from using actually nuclear weapons. Russia used conventional weapons to attack the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. In this kind of attack, I will grant, there is the very real possibility that you can wind up with a situation like Chernobyl where a huge amount of radiation is released. For that reason it is an insanely stupid idea for Russia to have attacked a nuclear power plant.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

That is a separate issue from using actually nuclear weapons. Russia used conventional weapons to attack the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. In this kind of attack, I will grant, there is the very real possibility that you can wind up with a situation like Chernobyl where a huge amount of radiation is released. For that reason it is an insanely stupid idea for Russia to have attacked a nuclear power plant.

Bob

I don't know how accurate the media are that I've read but the air attack resulted in a fire at a nearby training facility. Authorities said there were no casualties Can't help wondering if it was a surgical hit rather than insanely stupid. In any case Russia moved in and now controls the power plant so they won't be bombing themselves in the near future I'd assume.