Thread: The war in Georgia

Well, Georgia isn't part of NATO, but remember in Cypress NATO and UN stayed out of it.
I'm not surprised at all at what Russia is doing - after all they had to sit back during the democratic revolution few years back. Now that they are in the strong position and have no incentive to play nice. Remember that there is a lot of natural gas and oil flowing through these parts mostly towards europe. And there's Chechnya....
No, it is about money and power, as usual, and the russians most certainly don't mind if the prices go up. It looks like the georgian government is a goner either way, the democracy is an interesting thing that way.

Originally Posted by jnich67

From a larger strategic perspective, to some extent I do think the West needs to allow Russia to have its "sphere" of influence. They have to have some comfort level that they can control things to some extent in their "backyard". I think we would expect the same consideration.

Jordan

The Russians' view of Georgia and Ukraine wanting to join NATO is understandable. It would be not unlike Canada attempting to join the old Warsaw Pact. We in the states would've felt a bit threatened by that. A military offensive of this size isn't something that just happens; the Russian military was staged on the border and only needed an excuse, genuine or otherwise and, unfortunately, the Georgians handed it to them on a silver platter.

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

As for involving other nations, Seems like something that should have been worked out beforehand if they are looking for aid. But then again, I won't pretend to be an authority in the slightest, just an observer.

I agree with this. In situations like this being impractical/unrealistic can get more people killed than being evil, and what would possess Georgia to provoke Putin BEFORE lining up Western support is beyond me.

I have to admit to being too ignorant to comment on this intelligently, but the situation really scares me. This is the kind of conflict that can balloon very quickly and I hope it doesn't.

I wonder if Putin has been waiting for an excuse ever since Georgia said they wanted to join NATO, or if he's always been eying it and the desire to join NATO just made him jump quicker than he might have.

Russia is doing war the way she always has, total and punitive. As for Georgia she should have had her alliances together before standing up to the bear.BTW, If you have not read the Grand Chessboard by Zibignew Brezinski, it will tell you whats going on and why.

History.... Russia was a brutal and dictatorial country that killed it's own people and sucked the bone marrow out of it citizens souls!

Today..... Putin liked that style of government and wants to bring it back better and stronger than before. There are evil and brutal people in this world, get over it! People often say that the USA is a imperialistic nation? Let's hope Russia does not get rolling again because they will lay waste where ever they can. No country on earth has killed, imprisoned and purposely starved to death its own citizens on such a grand scale as Russia.

Only by staying on our toes and keeping our eye peeled can we hope to have a chance for peace in the near future. Russia's move in the last couple of days took months to plan so that when they say that it was a response to Georgia's resent actions they are lying, plain and simple!


Pray for peace!
Richard

Originally Posted by riooso

History.... Russia was a brutal and dictatorial country that killed it's own people and sucked the bone marrow out of it citizens souls!

Today..... Putin liked that style of government and wants to bring it back better and stronger than before. There are evil and brutal people in this world, get over it! People often say that the USA is a imperialistic nation? Let's hope Russia does not get rolling again because they will lay waste where ever they can. No country on earth has killed, imprisoned and purposely starved to death its own citizens on such a grand scale as Russia.

How about China?

Originally Posted by riooso

Only by staying on our toes and keeping our eye peeled can we hope to have a chance for peace in the near future. Russia's move in the last couple of days took months to plan so that when they say that it was a response to Georgia's resent actions they are lying, plain and simple!

This is true, it probably took months to plan for both sides. Or may be it was just Russia that did the planning and then just waited for the other side to hand them the excuse. Somebody on the Georgian side did a terrible mistake and now they are paying for it. They're not winning the propaganda war either. I saw somewhere an analysis saying that it may have not been Sahakashvili, but rather some other political/military faction deciding to opt for the blitzkrieg. Apparently Sahakashvili has been up to the last moment consistently pushing for whatever autonomy of the regions, as long as they remain nominally georgian. No doubt the Ossetians would prefer complete independence and I'm sure they've been trying to provoke Georgia to do just what they did.

As we all know politics is not about principles it's about interests. Once you give independence of Kosovo you really can't claim that evrerybody else's situation is completely different.

Yes Russia is rather messed up by the western standards, but at this point of time the west simply can't stand up against it. It was very cooperative in the 90s when the oil was cheap and plentiful and they were struggling to cope with their deficit. Now the tables are turned. Politically they are whole lot better than than say Saudi Arabia, the only problem is that they have real military power.

What about China?

Thanks Gugi, I was wondering the same thing. What bothers me the most is that it has been America that has given China the industry, technology and money that she now enjoys, how much longer before her eyes prowl the earth?

Gugi, I agree with your last post. Who knows what intrigues may have been going on for years - even?

With respect to the west not being willing or able to "defend" little Georgia from a Russian invasion, let’s keep in mind that NATO has already added a number of eastern European states that used to be part of the Warsaw pact. These were the "buffer" states that Russia long relied on to keep the west at some distance. The fact that this happened really speaks to the overall weakness of Russia. 25 years ago, if you had told me Poland and the Baltic states would one day be part of NATO....

I'm not being terribly coherent here, but what I'm trying to say is that the "front" - for lack of a better word - has shifted considerably from the time of the cold war. That's just another perspective.

I think it’s dumb of the west to push in too close to Russia; we need them for other things, like Iran. I'm sorry for the folks in Georgia and other neighbors of Russia, but that's the reality. As you said, it’s about interest.

This is a good discussion.

Jordan

Originally Posted by gugi

This is true, it probably took months to plan for both sides. Or may be it was just Russia that did the planning and then just waited for the other side to hand them the excuse.

From what I understand, all nations with a standing army have dozens if not hundreds of scenarios, worked out by an army of analysts. Every probable and improbable 'what if' has been worked out beforehand.
It has to be. A large military operation is complex (logistics, strategy, tactics, ...) and if the army needs to be called upon, they had better know instantly what they are supposed to do because you have no time to figure that out on the spot.

Originally Posted by gugi

Somebody on the Georgian side did a terrible mistake and now they are paying for it. They're not winning the propaganda war either. I saw somewhere an analysis saying that it may have not been Sahakashvili, but rather some other political/military faction deciding to opt for the blitzkrieg. Apparently Sahakashvili has been up to the last moment consistently pushing for whatever autonomy of the regions, as long as they remain nominally georgian. No doubt the Ossetians would prefer complete independence and I'm sure they've been trying to provoke Georgia to do just what they did.

That's for sure. Georgia screwed up big time. Their initial all out military offense caused a lot of unprovoked deaths, and lost them any goodwill they might have.
Now, Europe is dependent on Russian gas and oil. So I won't say that we would have taken a firm stance on Russia if they had started it all. Probably not. But now there is not much goodwill toward Georgia anyway because they are the first aggressor.

Is it true that George W Bush is very concerned about the war in Georgia because he thinks it is IN the US of A?