Thread: Is this Americas future?

"False imprisonment happens in the US too unfortunately, but we don't close the prisons down. "

Ah, there lies the differnce! ...in the US... United States citizens while in the US are proteced by the mother of all insurance policies -- the Constitution. Guantanamo Bay lies outside the jurisdiction of the Constitution. (My, what a concidence.) Waterboarding and other such unpleasantries do not take place in US prisons. Yes, fale imprisonments do occur but by error, not by policy. When such errors to take place, the injured party has recourse. Not so in Guantanamo Bay. What liberties do we give up by allowing this? Perhaps the right to liberty itself, if our belief in liberty stems from the propositioin that all men (not just all Americans) are created equal.

Originally Posted by freebird

be careful what you post,I received a negative feedback because of a post stating that I would rather watch Turner Classic Movies or the Speed channel instead of the inauguration.

To make amends for those who felt small enough to give negative rep over an opinion. I have added rep points and given a thanks for the heads up concerning the little people. God bless their little hearts.

Thanks guys, I truly appreciate the positive rep points. I figured part of it may have been that I've been away from the boards since August or September and it was just a matter of someone not knowing who I am and thought I was just making a negative post to get things stirred up.

Originally Posted by leadduck

"False imprisonment happens in the US too unfortunately, but we don't close the prisons down. "

Ah, there lies the differnce! ...in the US... United States citizens while in the US are proteced by the mother of all insurance policies -- the Constitution. Guantanamo Bay lies outside the jurisdiction of the Constitution.

the problem with that is gitmo is considered american soil. so if you really wanted to argue that it does fall under the Constitution, you wouldn't be totally wrong. Constitution or not, isn't torture morally wrong? i thought we were the people who abhor (i love that word) torture and consider it pretty much a crime against humanity. are we going to file the events at gitmo with the internment camps from WWII. i see the unfortunate parallel. and before you say, "those guys were terrorist!!!" not all of them were. and therein lies the problem. harm was done to innocent people, and as a police chief's son and former soldier, that is something i can't condone. if "w" (i can't call him president bush, that was his dad, you know, the smart one) could prove to me that everyone that was in gitmo and all the cia holding areas around the world were supposed to be there, i'll apologize and retract this statement.

I have always found that the solution to this type of discussion is to forget politics and countries and ask the hard question...

If somebody comes into your home on your soil with the intent to do harm to you or yours, do you do everything in the realm of possibilities to protect your family or do you worry about the law????

Makes it real simple doesn't it ???

Oh and one other thing please quit refering to Detriot as the Big 3, only 2 are failing, and got a bail out... Ford stands alone as of right now !!!!!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ford stands alone as of right now !!!!!

Glen, you know, this sounds like a car salesman to me...
I'm glad I live on the other end of the continent or I'll probably be driving one of those... Fords I guess :lol

I found it to be a quality article....after all, we all know what losers Wilson, Roosevelt, Johnson, and Reagan were...I mean look how they destroyed the US and world....and the past 8 years have been a watershed for the advancement of individual freedoms, the advance of science and art, the economy, and the reputation of the US around the world......

............oh, wait, I forgot to take the clamp off of my brain......aaaahhhh...that's better.


To paraphrase an old song:

"I cans see clearly now, the drain is gone......"

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have always found that the solution to this type of discussion is to forget politics and countries and ask the hard question...

If somebody comes into your home on your soil with the intent to do harm to you or yours, do you do everything in the realm of possibilities to protect your family or do you worry about the law????

Makes it real simple doesn't it ???

Oh and one other thing please quit refering to Detriot as the Big 3, only 2 are failing, and got a bail out... Ford stands alone as of right now !!!!!

That was very well put! I live in Va and DC isnt that far from me.And if some one ever got there hands on a suitcase nuke it would be my kids dying from the fallout in DC. It may sound un-realistic but in this crazy world you better not blink...we did one time. I hope Obama turns things around lord knows we cant afford to wish him to fail can we? But for me its my Wife&Kids 1st my wallet 2nd you cant spend it if your dead!

Matt

"If somebody comes into your home on your soil with the intent to do harm to you or yours, do you do everything in the realm of possibilities to protect your family or do you worry about the law????"

I like this arguement. So, if you thought your next door neighbor was in cahoots with bad guys, but then found out he wasn't, but then thought he was collecting weapons to use against you, would you be justified in invading his house and butchering his family? And then when you found out he didn't have any weapons, would you be aquitted of all charges by raising the defense, "Well gee, we're better off without him"? Not so simple after all, I guess.

"For example, detroit car industry will not recover until the big 3 finally start making decent cars. There is nothing Obama, or any other president can do about it. The only thing he can do is steer the US economy as a whole, with tax plans, incentives and channeling foreign trade."

The big 3 makes a decent car. They just don't make it at a good profit. Some blame management, some blame the union, some blame the labor force. I blame them all.

• management -
  
  • excess spending on bonuses and other perks rather than direct towards product
  • cutting costs related to product and not production
  • bowing down to union demands
• unions-
  
  • using money collected for political capital and not for product capitol
  • influence politics to shift market rules instead of comply and control work practices
  • use influence and money to sway politicians to inhibit growth of free market principles to non union programs
• labor force-
  
  • manipulate union rules to limit amount of production during work period (contract says at least 50 parts, that's all their getting)
  • maintenance personel dictating when work is performed to get the advantage of overtime pay.
  • grievances for frivolous things as moving material out of the way to perform you work, when that job is only to be performed by "X" department. You wait until they move it then do your work.

And the list can go on and on. As of today, the Ledbetter act was approved in the Senate requiring union only labor on PLA state funded jobs (construction work). Keep in mind that the union holds 12 to 15% of the workforce in this industry but are dictating policy with this new administration. Non-union companies tend to put their profits toward company growth, union companies rely on the union to help them grow by polital influence on business practices.

As for Guantanamo, we'd be happy to send them to Belgium for proper due process. Something tells me you don't want them either though. Gitmo prisoners were not "abducted" off the street for no reason. The German referenced was not targeted by a secret American task force infiltrating Germany without the knowledge of the German government and brought to Gitmo. One would think that evidence was presented and approved by both governments before said apprehension. It is my belief that Guantanamo is not filled with choir boys caught tasting the sacred wine.

And if your going to tell the American people that it is closing, you better give us a clear cut plan as to what is going to happen to the captives (yes captives, if they had on uniforms and fought per the Geneva conventions I would call them prisoners and they would be treated as such), not tell me that you have a task force looking into it.

All I see right now are knee jerk reactions to appease a public that wants results immediately. Give the dog a meaty bone to keep it busy while you finish dinner, if you will. When it comes to the military issues ofour country, this administration is giving quick actions with no teeth to appease the voter base, while giving them (admin) time to actually evaluate the situation more thoroughly. I paraphrase but "close Gitmo amd all other CIA facilities while looking at other options including other out of country areas as well as domestic to detain" No teeth! It seems to me they want to close the bad "GITMO" and move them to a new place, maybe with unicorns and Skittles for everyone.

There is also another small issue of $835 billiion on top of the $700 billion to "stimulate" the economy. More money on top of more money. Who is to pay for this? Let the market work itself out. The government can't buy out our problems, When they buy our problems, they are still our problems but now for a longer time period. LET THE MARKET WORK!!!!!!

You make $60,000 a year and bought a $250,000 house. Now you can't make the payment? Get out of it and see me in 7 years (rent in the meantime) and let's try and get you in a $100,000 home. Don't let your mouth write a check that your A$$ can't cash!

The new administration is still in it's infancy, and still has many obstacles of the previous to overcome. I just know that the previous administration gave no quarter if you decided to come and harm us. They also expected us to be the independents to provide for ourselves.

Individual provides = shelter, food, clothing, heat, individual transportation, medical provisions, individual security (think 2nd amendment)

Government provides= national security, infrastructure of public utlities and platform to govern ones self through elections.

The United States of America gives not only to its citizens but to the world as a whole in any time of need, but yet we are continually beaten down verbally for any action we take. I for one am tired of my hard work and tax dollars going to those who don't appreciate our contribution to society, abroad and from within. And our dumbing down of our country from within is completely frustrating to me.

I am a free man in this country and wish not to be in any other country in this world nor do I feel the need to explain to others why I feel this way. I am also sick and tired of working my A$$ off every day, paying the way for others so that they can Bi#%$ and complain about MY country.

I would much rather talk about razors, But some of you continue to talk politics. I know we have had other discussions on free speech, but I feel this is no different tham sitting in your local barbershop and listening to what some old codger is saying in the corner.

I'm still waiting on a shave, so I'll be over here in the corner. Where's the coffee?

"All men are created equal. After creation, it's up to you to rise up or fall down"

Kilowattkid